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The definitive Gearbox thread


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Just changed the 18 month old tractor diff oil (straight mineral EP90 GL5 because it was whiney) back to fully synthetic 75EP90 GL4-5 as it's easier to change gear when the oil is cold.

After a year and a half (15k miles) this is what I found on the little magnet I stuck inside the sump plug (in addition to the built in magnet you cant get to). Gives me an idea that all is still ok- no major chips- just very fine black dust. Also the oil came out nice and clean which is a bonus.

I'm still going to rebuild it when I get a chance. 90k miles and counting on my SDI no.1.

1sck5w.jpg

Edited by mk2
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  • 2 months later...
  • 1 year later...

hello there guys. i have a 1.4 lupo e. the gearbox has a bad, loud grinding noise when in neutral. if i put my foot on the clutch pedal the noise goes immediately but foot of the clutch pedal its back. i bought a clutch release bearing and want to change it myself. what i want to know is doi have to drain the oil or i can do it without drain it as i have no idea of where to do it from. can somebody help me out here please with a guide. thanks.

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41 minutes ago, changes0311 said:

hello there guys. i have a 1.4 lupo e. the gearbox has a bad, loud grinding noise when in neutral. if i put my foot on the clutch pedal the noise goes immediately but foot of the clutch pedal its back. i bought a clutch release bearing and want to change it myself. what i want to know is doi have to drain the oil or i can do it without drain it as i have no idea of where to do it from. can somebody help me out here please with a guide. thanks.

No need to drain oil.

Remove start motor (3x13mm head bolts) 

remove driveshaft bolts (12 in total - think they’re size 10 , definitely triple square / spline though) 

4x 18mm head bolts hold it to the block

drop box out (it will clear the subframe and driveshafts with a bit of wiggling!) 

replace thrust bearing. 

Installation is repeat of removal. 

 

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Probably not your release bearing (unless clutch is out of adjustment), more likely bearing in gearbox.

Slowly press the clutch pedal, listen and also feel with your foot, when does the noise change? Slowly release clutch, now where does the noise come in?

You dont have to drain the box to remove it as said above as it has drive flanges which seal it, but to be honest you would be better off cracking off the fill (do this one first!) and drain plugs in situ (as they can be hard to undo with the box off the car) and draining it into a tray and shining a torch into the oil and looking for metal particles before deciding to drop the box.

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  • 1 month later...

sorry to drag this up again, can anyone recommend a company that you have used in the past to rebuild the gti 6 speed box that charges a reasonable price. I am based in Grimsby (DN36) so the closer the better but i dont mind travelling a little if i have too.

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  • 3 months later...

Hey everyone, I’ve had my vw Lupo 1.4s 16v for a year or so now, and a few months back, I noticed a terrible rattle/whiney noise, originally though it was the thrust bearing so changed that along with the clutch, however the noise it still there. It goes once the clutch is in, however it’s there straight away as soon as you are driving, 1st 2nd 3rd all make the noise however 4th and 5th don’t. Any suggestions on what it could be? Cheers 

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Don't drive it. Had my box rebuilt yesterday for £50 plus new bearing/seal kit. Sounds like your pinion bearing has probably gone out for lunch. Irrecoverable.

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6 hours ago, mk2 said:

Don't drive it. Had my box rebuilt yesterday for £50 plus new bearing/seal kit. Sounds like your pinion bearing has probably gone out for lunch. Irrecoverable.

@Mk2, where did you get the bearing/seal kit? Approx how much are they?

@Charlieb793, When my input shaft bearing went, the noise happened in every gear. It does sound like the box needs rebuilding.

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On 7/21/2018 at 11:48 AM, mk2 said:

Ebay for 85 quid. Just make absolutely sure that they are decent branded bearings like timken, skf, fag etc.

Thanks for that! Exactly as you say, several almost identical kits, same prices, some NOT using decent bearings!

One of my boxes has a noisy input shaft bearing which this kit should fix. The other has lost 4th gear. I have not split the box yet, the ebay box I bought as a stop gap is still running OK with EP90 "Tractor oil".

Is a used box the best source of parts for the 4th gear problem?

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I wouldn't buy anything till the box has been opened up. If the gears or pinion bearing casting has 'gone', you'll have no option other than to get a replacement box. I only had my box rebuilt as I know that even though it was running 100% fine, they don't last. Personally, if you don't know the history of the car and it's done over 100k miles, I'd spend the £130 and then relax that you have at least another five decent years of use from it. Good investment.

I need to get my other box done too although it is running ok.

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  • 2 years later...
15 minutes ago, aaront said:

i have a 2002 vw lupo 1.4 16v and the gearbox has blown and now its leaking the oil. any advice would be appreciated

You say blown. Does it still shift and drive just leaks oil? Does it make any noised when driving in any gears, etc? If it is just leaking then maybe only a seal.

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I completely forgot about this thread. On my last box refurb (I don't have the tools to do it), I asked if I could hang around and take pics while they were working. I'll post them when I have a mo. It shows the most common failure point, and the parts that are in most need of refurb. Bearings...

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Here's a small selection of the 75 pics I took!

The tricky bits are removing/reassembling the selector/reverse mech and 5th. And the inner/outer bearing sleeves. I still don't get it after he explained it to me at at length (the selector mech bit).

casing.jpg

opened.jpg

magnet.jpg

diff bearing.jpg

 

selector engagement.jpg

selector.jpg

removing 5th.jpg

fifth.jpg

5th.jpg

inner.jpg

needle.jpg

flange.jpg

stripped.jpg

bearing.jpg

Edited by mk2
typo
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That must have taken ages to edit that lot. It looks very busy and complicated on those pics. Summat I don’t ever understand until it’s in bits in front of me. 
  It’s good to know btw about the plastic around the 5th gear melting if oil is low so I’ll make sure now mines right before it goes back on the road. 

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Mk2 those are amazing pictures. Those diff bearing races look like they have been sand blasted. Presumably those bits on the magnet are the once smooth bits from those races. What was it like to drive before stripping down? Right as rain, or a few niggling things? Any feedback on what caused your diff bearings to wear like that? How many miles? Am I right that the box was running fine and had done 100K miles, and that you just rebuilt it to be sure? By the look of those bearings it was a good idea to replace them!

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Yeah reason for our Lupo boxes going I think we discussed in detail further up this thread or in the pedal box one. 

From memory, this was done at about 100k miles a couple of years back. It was working perfectly, with no noises, perfect changes- basically like a new gearbox. Oil was down a little when I first bought the car, but only by about 1/2 a litre. I did a full flush and refill after getting it and posted the residue photos on here. Look further back. A fair bit of brass in the oil, which suggested that there was a possibility of bits getting jammed in the rollers (bearings). The photos speak for themselves I guess! All my Lupo gearboxes were pretty much in the same state- at average 105k miles.

After the rebuild, there was no noticable change. Exactly like before, but now with nice new bearings (and clutch, which had lots of life still in it). SDI 085 boxes are so difficult to find, I'd decided it was worth the money to be safe. I've seen so many SDIs get written off because their gearbox had gone and they simply couldn't source a replacement (for a reasonable price). After all, they were originally designed to work with 40hp power from the old Polo (VW Derby).

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23 hours ago, Sarahs Lupo said:

are there any companies offering a rebuild service or drive in drive out ??? 

it be good to hear 

 

The most time consuming (and therefore expensive) part is removing and replacing the box. If you can get the box out and take it to a place complete with a rebuild kit, they'll probably charge you just £50 (which is what I paid). It takes about an hour. They might even let you watch... :)

I heard that "Mr clutch" charges £200 for a new clutch in a Lupo, complete with pressure plate, bearing and clutch plate. Which is worth doing once the thing is out. So "they" could pull it out, you could bring the gearbox round to your prearranged rebuilder, back to mr clutch. All good... maybe £250 all in, for another 10 years of trouble free, cheap motoring.

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Thank you mk2, great photos!

Has anyone tried to fill more than 2,7L of oil into 085 gearbox? I have heard "an extra 500ml of oil solves oiling problems for 085 gearboxes", therefore I filled mine up to 3,0L with synthetic 75W90.

 

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