All UP! models to be discontinued over next 6 months.

[mk2]

To be replaced by £57k SUV EV model... Got no concrete confirmation of this story, but apparently this is it for the end of small vdub cars. Anyone have any info? Personally, I don't really like the style of the up. The seat and skoda versions look better IMO.

They expect sales to run out by next Autumn.

[lupo1.0se]

13 hours ago, mk2 said:

To be replaced by £57k SUV EV model... Got no concrete confirmation of this story, but apparently this is it for the end of small vdub cars. Anyone have any info? Personally, I don't really like the style of the up. The seat and skoda versions look better IMO.

They expect sales to run out by next Autumn.

 

Sounds like you have been watching a certain youtuber (you know who you are!)

Anyway. The Up being discontinued is true. It already has been. Confirmed by Autocar. https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/volkswagen-up

But its some what confusing. See below dates

The E-UP finished orders in 2022

The GTi finished in Jan 2023

Reamining Models October 2023

Its something i probably write in a bit more detail as the story is not clear cut. But i hope this helps.

 

 

Edited October 21, 2023 by lupo1.0se

[Grumpy]

Remaining Up models are only available from dealer stock. Recently changed my 3 door Tornado red Up GTI for a 3 door Pure White one which is higher spec and a little newer. For me there is nothing not to like about them and they are an end of an era.

[decvalts]

Had a brief mini-crisis of looking for a Lupo replacement due to impending ULEZ and parking permit charges (also based on emissions) here. Asked for a quote for a new Up but told would be difficult to find anything even from stock from local dealer.

Thankfully decided to stick with Lupo until ULEZ inevitably gets extended one day. Quite like the Up though, borrowed one briefly and was good to drive (although gerabox was crap but no change there...)

[mk2]

I've already forked out a fair bit on London ULEZ. Waiting for this month's bill (autopay). Not happy.

CO2 is no longer considered a pollutant. So all the low car tax stuff (based on CO2 emissions) from a few years ago is now being clawed back. Lovely.

[lupogtiboy]

ULEZ is a big con, trying to claw back the money TFL lost whilst Boris was in charge. Sadiq is no angel, but people forget it was Bojo who introduced ULEZ in the first place, as he was so incompetent as London mayor. Funny as he was left with plenty of money for TFL when Big Ken was in charge.....

[The Penguin]

I'm not surprised the Up, and its derivatives show no improvement on the Lupo/Arosa and without diesel models they show little variety

[lupogtiboy]

20 hours ago, The Penguin said:

I'm not surprised the Up, and its derivatives show no improvement on the Lupo/Arosa and without diesel models they show little variety

I totally disagree with this, the Up! is a great car, full of character and fun to drive. Lots of different models and specs to choose from, and it never needed a diesel version, as the economy was already there with the petrol engines. Even my mapped GTI gets mid to high 50 mpg on most journeys, so why would you need a diesel variant?

[Grumpy]

6 hours ago, lupogtiboy said:

I totally disagree with this, the Up! is a great car, full of character and fun to drive. Lots of different models and specs to choose from, and it never needed a diesel version, as the economy was already there with the petrol engines. Even my mapped GTI gets mid to high 50 mpg on most journeys, so why would you need a diesel variant?

+1

[The Penguin]

reliability

[mk2]

Not as bad as Porsche or Mercedes...! 😂

As for economy, the old Polo and our Lupos are more economical. I think 20 years ago, economy was the thing. Now it's emissions. My SDIs consistently average about 65mpg. On a run, always over 80mpg.

But I seriously wonder what small car VW will offer once all the Ups are gone? Any ideas or rumours? Anyone?

Edited November 1, 2023 by mk2

[The Penguin]

this is true either the TDI or the SDI can manage 70mpg if driven gently

[decvalts]

There's an ID.1 in development I think with a target release around 2025. Totally different platform to the Up but similar segment of small(ish..) city car. Unfortunately we've kind of reached the end of the emissions/economy trade-off in combustion engines (I think in practical terms anyway) and economy has to suffer slightly for most tweaks made to reduce NOx and particulates etc. It's not good stuff to breathe in, especially in cities where it doesn't disperse as well as CO2 does, tends to linger around urban areas. 

[Rich]

I might buy the Mrs an id1

[lupogtiboy]

On 11/1/2023 at 9:07 AM, The Penguin said:

reliability

Based on what experience? The Up! is by far one of the most reliable VW's with very little to actually go wrong. My 2019 GTI is on 71k and has been faultless so far, even with everything I've thrown at it (stage 1 remap, dump valve, intake, turbo elbow and a heavy right foot!) 

 

[mk2]

Euro 7, the new emissions standard, starts on the 1st of July 2025- only 18 months away.

And as far as I understand it, the standard is the SAME for both diesel and petrol.

And the cars have to have comprehensive emissions monitoring on board, to guarantee compliance for at least 10 (yes TEN) years! So a ten year old car in 2035 must emit the same as when it was new. I forsee many many 'faults' or recalls. As soon as thing start to get that strict, even the slightest variance will flag as a fault. It's almost a reason all on its own not to buy one. Unless it has something like a ten year guarantee. DPFs and EGR all clog up. How will they get around it?!

It's going to get interesting

 

[lupogtiboy]

3 hours ago, mk2 said:

Euro 7, the new emissions standard, starts on the 1st of July 2025- only 18 months away.

And as far as I understand it, the standard is the SAME for both diesel and petrol.

And the cars have to have comprehensive emissions monitoring on board, to guarantee compliance for at least 10 (yes TEN) years! So a ten year old car in 2035 must emit the same as when it was new. I forsee many many 'faults' or recalls. As soon as thing start to get that strict, even the slightest variance will flag as a fault. It's almost a reason all on its own not to buy one. Unless it has something like a ten year guarantee. DPFs and EGR all clog up. How will they get around it?!

It's going to get interesting

 

Are you confusing interesting with expensive? Or boring? They obviously don't want anyone to own a car anymore, they don't want us catching planes to other countries. Life is becoming more and more strict and boring, when will we all say enough is enough?

[mk2]

Sounds like you've been entertained by the same youtube channels as me! Don't get me started... EVs vs Diesel. EVS catching fire, fifteen minute cities, ULEZ protests, emissions based parking charges etc etc.

I live about 15 minutes drive from the nearest petrol station or supermarket, in the sticks, in the middle of nowhere. Cows in the field next door. If I didn't have a car, I don't think I could exist. No gas connection either. Only leccy, water and s l o w broadband... no 4/5G coverage either. There are millions of us in the same situation, so I genuinely don't know how the gov thinks we can live without a car. Really. 

Can't believe I'm talking politics on CL. Ray will probably delete my post

 

[The Penguin]

On 11/1/2023 at 5:32 PM, decvalts said:

There's an ID.1 in development I think with a target release around 2025. Totally different platform to the Up but similar segment of small(ish..) city car. Unfortunately we've kind of reached the end of the emissions/economy trade-off in combustion engines (I think in practical terms anyway) and economy has to suffer slightly for most tweaks made to reduce NOx and particulates etc. It's not good stuff to breathe in, especially in cities where it doesn't disperse as well as CO2 does, tends to linger around urban areas. 

Air quality in the 1950's was immensely worse in British cities than it is today, NOx quickly turn into acids that can become smog's but never on the scale of the past.

[The Penguin]

On 11/2/2023 at 11:09 AM, lupogtiboy said:

Based on what experience? The Up! is by far one of the most reliable VW's with very little to actually go wrong. My 2019 GTI is on 71k and has been faultless so far, even with everything I've thrown at it (stage 1 remap, dump valve, intake, turbo elbow and a heavy right foot!) 

 

these are all still relatively new cars, don't brag about this till they are 20 years old

[lupo1.0se]

On 11/5/2023 at 11:44 AM, The Penguin said:

Air quality in the 1950's was immensely worse in British cities than it is today, NOx quickly turn into acids that can become smog's but never on the scale of the past.

Agreed. But what happened was in the early 2000s diesels where highly promoted and tax groups adjusted from the previous cc category to the emissons based category. However at the time they did not realise about the NOx situation and we ended up where we are now. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. It would be ineresting to see what a bus puts out in NOx.

Edited November 6, 2023 by lupo1.0se

[mk2]

NOX is generated as a result of a high temperature burn using air, the nitrogen gas component actually getting hot enough to react with the oxygen in the air. =Nitrogen Oxides.

The compression ratio of an engine affects the burn temperature, which is why in the US they dropped compression ratios down to something like 6:1 for petrol. CARB rules or something. Reduces smog. European petrols' is around 9:1. So naturally, diesel with it's high compression ratio (20:1) generates the most. The higher the compression ratio, the more efficient the burn. It's also why military explosives are so effective, they detonate generating huge pressures, and lots of expanding gas to propel metal stuff.

But. Jet engines have a compression ratio of about 30:1. Go figure. And LHR is within ULEZ. I still think diesel is the best form of propulsion.

[The Penguin]

On 11/6/2023 at 5:38 PM, lupo1.0se said:

Agreed. But what happened was in the early 2000s diesels where highly promoted and tax groups adjusted from the previous cc category to the emissons based category. However at the time they did not realise about the NOx situation and we ended up where we are now. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. It would be ineresting to see what a bus puts out in NOx.

They were prompted because of diesel fuel consumption being far lower than that of petrol and the consequent reductions in CO2, these reductions were far more important in terms of climate change than NOX emissions. All the European car manufactures decided to take the pish though.

[The Penguin]

On 11/6/2023 at 6:15 PM, mk2 said:

NOX is generated as a result of a high temperature burn using air, the nitrogen gas component actually getting hot enough to react with the oxygen in the air. =Nitrogen Oxides.

The compression ratio of an engine affects the burn temperature, which is why in the US they dropped compression ratios down to something like 6:1 for petrol. CARB rules or something. Reduces smog. European petrols' is around 9:1. So naturally, diesel with it's high compression ratio (20:1) generates the most. The higher the compression ratio, the more efficient the burn. It's also why military explosives are so effective, they detonate generating huge pressures, and lots of expanding gas to propel metal stuff.

But. Jet engines have a compression ratio of about 30:1. Go figure. And LHR is within ULEZ. I still think diesel is the best form of propulsion.

plus there can be considerable contribution of carbon neutral vegetable oils in their production

[jon_273]

Have to disagree on the Up! being an improvement on the Lupo sadly. I have a 2023 plate GTI with 2,700 miles on it, it was delivered with a broken passenger seat height adjuster, the drivers side window mechanism collapsed and the glass would pop out of the rubbers, rear suspension rattles, dashboard creaks, there is an annoying turbo wastegate noise every time you lift off (which I don't think is normal but I need to try another one to see really). Not to mention lack of one-touch windows, no backlit window and mirror switches, abysmal headlights and rubbish ventilation, no bonnet strut, hard plastic door cards etc. All this for £20k. It has a boot light though which you never got on a Lupo.

I like the engine and it drives very well and is economical but it's annoying me too much for me to enjoy it at the moment. 

Edited December 23, 2023 by jon_273