petrol vs diesel...

[MattyA]

I like diesel, but wait I like petrol too, funny how you can like more than one thing...

Any feel free to air your opinion...

[IDGM]

I like baked beans and I like ketchup, but can't eat beans with ketchup on.

Same goes for fried eggs and peas - never in the same meal.

[Crusoe]

Diesel engines have been developed far further than petrol engines in the past but lessons learned from direct injection, smarter high pressure injectors, variable vane turbos etc. are now being applied to petrol engines making the diesel some what redundant. Predict there will be pressure igniting petrol engines before too long where a mist of fuel is injected and the compression of the piston creates enough pressure and heat to combust the fuel as in a diesel engine, this will happen with less pressure in petrol engines as the fuel is more explosive but they have the technology to control the fueling so much better now. Should be able to make two cylinder engines efficient and smooth (new fiat with a sub 1.2lr two cylinder turbo and around 100bhp due next year) why have a small diesel?

Diesel thrived when people liked the large torque low down and the efficiency, with new turbo technology this should be possible form petrol engines with a better sound, driver involvement and larger rev range. The characteristic of power building through the rev range to peak at top revs is only possible with petrol engines, even the best diesel will peak low down and be on a downward curve past peak torque unless it is remapped to reduce the response lower down.

The removal of cam driven valves to be replaced (probably by pneumatic valves which seem the most advanced currently in prototype) is claimed to add another 30% efficiency to the petrol engine.

[IDGM]

Boo. Just had the Ibiza Revo'd yesterday - 170hp from that wheezy 1.9 8v diesel would have been pure fantasy 20 years ago.

[Crusoe]

as long as your insurance knows that you'll be fine, though you might get into problems if the mot start testing particulates like they are supposed to usually a cloud of soot under full acceleration.

[Joe]

A lot of diesel remaps these days actually improve economy and don't really affect emissions.

[Crusoe]

the remap increases torque so they tend to be driven more in gear without changing down hence the percieved fuel efficiency increase. FYI Seat do offer a 170bhp superchip warrentied verson in europe for the diesel though guess insurance issues stop them over here, lots of people with remaps that don't tell the insurance company about them.

If they can make the petrol engine 40% more efficient realistically unless you do a huge milage you won't want a diesel. If you could have a more powerful turbo charged average family car with a 240bhp petrol engine giving 42-45mpg why would you go for the 180bhp 2lr diesel that returned 45-50mpg? Especially when there is still a cost and weight premium from the extra pressures the diesel has to stand up to making it more expensive and made out of heavier stronger materials.

Edited April 29, 2008 by Crusoe

[AwesomeAl]

Can of worms matt, Can of worms...

[heartagram]

Diesels are quick, but they just feel lazy to drive. Don't feel like they have any get up and go. I mean you put your foot down and they shift, but theres no fun in that imo. Like driving an automatic. Example, in my mums bimmer you can be doing 60 in 6th, put your foot down and in no time at all you'll be doing 90. In the Lupo you'd have to bring it down a gear or to and really wind it up.

Revvy petrols always feel like a more involved drive and I love hearing them scream. Sure I get half the fuel consumption of a diesel but I'd rather have an empty wallet and a smile on my face than a wallet full of money but contemplating driving into a hedge every time I drive the car.

Different strokes for different folks.

[IDGM]

as long as your insurance knows that you'll be fine, though you might get into problems if the mot start testing particulates like they are supposed to usually a cloud of soot under full acceleration.

£62 extra paid yesterday to HIC. Still cheap at under £400 Fully Comp with NCB protection though for the Mrs & me.

I was going to remove the cat and system in favour of a Milltek, but the potential soot increase put me off as well as the 'marginal' power gains for the money. As it is, it's no worse than before.

As for petrol, it's good that manufactures are now investing time and money making them more cost effective to run as they have done with derv in the past few years. I always think that an engine should be big enough to haul it's load (ie body & passengers) without having to rev the tits off it. My Fiesta is an perfect example of how not to do it and sadly a situation set to continue with the new one at the endo of the year.

[Crusoe]

true, small engines in big cars are often less efficient that the next engine up. The yamaha 1.25 petrol in the fiesta is quite a nice revy unit though if that's what you've got. 1.6 petrol engines in passats and audi A4s were one of the worst culprits of the large car small engine problem. Though volkswagen has a history of underengined cars from the 1lr polo through 1.4 petrol golf.

[cardaft]

Thats why I like them. You have to rev them hard to get rewards. Feels like your doing something going somewhere.

Diesels are rubbish. Fast, but rubbish to drive imo.

Yeah, but when your not reving them they feel so slow.

I like driving both tbh, but the more i get to like diesels the more i go off petrols.

No petrol engine car (say with less than 120bhp) seems to have any performance to it, although thats how it feels, its just smooth with its power i guess, where the diesel you get a kick from the turbo. For me a diesel feels quicker, and its more the feeling which appeals.

A good diesel engine has power most of the time, so you just plant your foot and your off, with a petrol your left having to change down and thrash the engine to bits. Which is good at times, i agree, but gets boring and especially when ive people in the car, having to drive at high revs to get anywhere quickly just feels like im thrashing it all the time.

Where as in a diesel i can drive just as fast but it doesnt seem like im working the engine. Which is my main thing i like about diesels.

Diesels are also better on a motorway run, in a petrol you have to plan overtaking, carnt just put your foot down in 5th at 50 and go to 80 without dropping a cog, for example. Diesels also sit at lower revs than petrols on the motorway, so they are more relaxing with more power.

I really carnt see why anyone would have a mid sized mid engines petrol car now.

For example we have a 1.6 Fiat, its got 102 bhp or something, it is quickish and it does move when you push it to from about 4000 - 7000rpm! Sounds ok acutally at that revs, just feels totally wrong, but it was made for it. Although in the back of my mind there is something saying - this is a fiat, could go pop at any time! But when not thrashing it its slow, and never really feels as quick as my little TDi Arosa.

On the motorway you have to plan overtaking in rush hour as it doesnt have the torque low down. THe MPG is about 37MPG, which is low really, i carnt see why you would have a car which isnt quick, need to thrash it everywhere, and is bad on fuel.

So its slow, noisey as it needs to be rev'd, and rubbish on fuel. Erm where is the diesel please! (before anyone asks we got the fiat cheap, it wasnt out of choice but we needed a stop gap car for a couple of months! It WILL be swapped for a Turbo diesel car in the near future.

Obviously a little car with a higher powered petrol enging will be fun (sport, gti lupo for example) the above is for bigger cars. As after my arosa i will be getting a mid sized car.

Obviosuly the above depends on how good the diesel and how good the petrol engines are, some are better than others obviosuly.

Hmm a turbo petrol, now that would get me driving petrols again.

Edited April 29, 2008 by cardaft

[Tigz™]

Ive just got back from the DVLA after a trip in a 320 Oil chugger.

Feels fast, but so much lag, you had to either rev the tits off it, or experance a bad jerk when pulling away as the turbo spooled up.

Either way its not as smooth as a petrol 320.

In my opinion, the BMW engine is much better than any other Dirty fuel'd car out there, but it still wouldnt tear me away from Petrol.

I got 38MPG out of it on a 150 mile round trip.

Not great really, 170bhp if I remember correctly?

[simpo]

Not too bad, my parents galaxy (130bhp tdi) averages over 40mpg though. The only reason I would want a diesel is for relaxed long distance driving. The galaxy does a 100 very easily for a big car, at which its doing 3 thousand rpm and getting over 40mpg. Superb when we used to drive to the south of France every year, for relaxed cruising and mile munching.

But imo, there not as fun to drive and unless I was doing long distances I wouldn't want one.

[heartagram]

So its slow, noisey as it needs to be rev'd, and rubbish on fuel. Erm where is the diesel please! (before anyone asks we got the fiat cheap, it wasnt out of choice but we needed a stop gap car for a couple of months! It WILL be swapped for a Turbo diesel car in the near future.

I disagree, my sports not to slow. It'll not blow your mind away but it keeps up with all the other traffic on the road. You can happily cruise at around 90 and you don't have to raise your voice to speak, not loud at all (thats on really low profile tyres to!). Its only rubbish on fuel if you kick it about. If you drive sensibly then it gives good MPG.

Diesel is still a dirty word for me.

Imo if you want to have some proper fun you need to have a petrol.

All the best cars don't come in diesel.

[cardaft]

As i just posted in the arosa vs lupo thread .....

...... Its which ever engine you prefer ......

...... and which suits how you like to drive.

Although some people just say they hate diesels for the sake of it, which is just plain stupid. Yes old diesels are rough, grumbly and slow, but modern ones are different.

I wouldnt just go for A diesel over A petrol though, the diesel would have to be a good one, or id go for the petrol.

[cardaft]

Not too bad, my parents galaxy (130bhp tdi) averages over 40mpg though. The only reason I would want a diesel is for relaxed long distance driving. The galaxy does a 100 very easily for a big car, at which its doing 3 thousand rpm and getting over 40mpg. Superb when we used to drive to the south of France every year, for relaxed cruising and mile munching.

But imo, there not as fun to drive and unless I was doing long distances I wouldn't want one.

This is one area you MUST have a diesel though, with big cars and 4x4s. You buy a petrol ford galaxy or 4x4 and you will have to keep it for life, as no one will buy it from you. So diesels make total sense for family cars imo.

BTW, do you know if your galaxy has the VW engine? Ive always wondered that, or if they use a ford engine

I disagree, my sports not to slow. It'll not blow your mind away but it keeps up with all the other traffic on the road. You can happily cruise at around 90 and you don't have to raise your voice to speak, not loud at all (thats on really low profile tyres to!). Its only rubbish on fuel if you kick it about. If you drive sensibly then it gives good MPG.

Diesel is still a dirty word for me.

Imo if you want to have some proper fun you need to have a petrol.

All the best cars don't come in diesel.

Hmm, i did say with exception to small higher powered cars though, which are fun to drive, that was in relation to our fiat, which is not fun to drive, not quick, not good on fuel and noisey when pushed. So i carnt see the point in having a mid sized car with a mid sized petrol engine. Small cars with petrol engines yes.

[LiamD]

I prefer petrol engines... mainly because of the noise.

Driving a diesel hard is just frustrating. They run out of revs too quickly for my liking.

Although I'll happily admit a re-mapped Fabia VRs was one of the best cars I've driven and by far the best diesel. Although 5 minutes later I got to hammer a Corrado 20vt around, which, even though it had similar power, was a million times more fun.

[IDGM]

Diesel is still a dirty word for me.

Imo if you want to have some proper fun you need to have a petrol.

All the best cars don't come in diesel.

Possessed by Beach/Clouseau/Daz Kez

Ive just got back from the DVLA after a trip in a 320 Oil chugger.

I got 38MPG out of it on a 150 mile round trip.

Not great really, 170bhp if I remember correctly?

We get high 50s out of a new 320d Auto. You were enjoying it more than you're letting on!

Edited April 29, 2008 by IDGM

[Max69vk]

Diesel is apparently still a very 'Marmite' subject. ..

Having driven turbo diesels for the last 4 out of 5 years (initially not my decision - there's only so many gearboxes you can blow up before you give up!) Im now used to how to drive them & how to get the most out of whats available in terms of response & power. This wasn't always the case though, initially stepping down from a tuned 2.0 16v to a turbo diesel I hated every minute. Too much lag, no high revving, it felt like hell. However after time to adjust my driving style, every time I get back into a petrol motor they just feel gutless & like they're going to explode when you rev them hard.

Ultimately it depends what you want from you're car & how you're going to use it.

I used to spend £120+ a week on fuel, pay £180 on road tax, well over £800 a year on insurance, could never find anywhere to park, & it could never find a road without a speed camera or policeman ready to nick me for speeding if I did want to have some fun.

I now spend £15 a week on fuel, £35 on road tax, sub £400 on insurance, can park practically anywhere & if I want some fun I can just have a bit of blast down a b-road without having to get the car screaming like a banshee to get some power out of it. If I want serious power & high revving these days I think I'll be purchasing a Fireblade rather than car.

[MattyA]

Can of worms matt, Can of worms...

Indeed, did it in the attempt to keep the "Life after Lupos" thread clean

[heartagram]

You cunning lovely person

[MattyA]

someone help me out, after spending £50-60 a week on the lupo gti, I wanted to get a car that was more efficient, well built and had some[\u] performance. Always liked the new golf mk5 huge improvement over the 4 (I can say that as I have own the 1.8t) so I wanted an effecient mk5 with performance, for a lowley budget off £12k, which petrol version in the golf range exsists that offers the mentioned?

My point being it doesn't exsist...

[Rich]

mk5 1.6 match fsi.

my mum claims to get a great mpg from hers.

more so than she got out of her beemer diesel.

although saying that she doesn't rag this one about. . . .

Rich

Edited April 30, 2008 by Rich

[r44my_k]

mk5 1.6 match fsi.

my mum claims to get a great mpg from hers.

more so than she got out of her beemer diesel.

although saying that she doesn't rag this one about. . . .

Rich

The 1.6 dosent give much performance does it?