sideways-si Posted December 28, 2006 Report Share Posted December 28, 2006 HelloI'm new to this forum and new to forums in general actually, having been born into an era when each school had just one computer for all the scholars, i am what you might call a late starter. So please forgive me if my approach is somehow unauthodocs or rambling / boring!The project all kicked off when i drove to Emerald M3d in Norfolk. At the time i was driving a BMW E30 estate, this car was my joy, it would be pushing it to say it was my pride and joy. My pride was an E28 M535i which later donated its engine to the afformentioned 3 series but thats another story and not for now.Before the engine installation the cars original 2.5 lump had a healthy output of 187bhp and after the 3.5 installation, running on gas and the 325 exhaust system things were different. So to the rollers to find out why. Well a few horses had escaped during the conversion, 75 of them to be precise.I no exactly why and again this is not for now. So why you ask am i writing about natzi staff cars on the Lupo forum.Sit back light a fag, ( thats a malborough light not a gay person) and i'll tell you.It was at the same rolling road session, that i was pointed in the direction of a yellow Lupo Gti.The lupo Gti in question was wearing the private plate LUP O53 and read LUPO S3.In fact it wasn't wearing a number plate at all. In the slot where the plate should be was a lazer cut aluminium air vent, with the characters of the plate opened up as ventilation to the engine.So what's under the bonnet was the next question i posed.Under the bonnet was an Audi S3 engine, chipped to 260 or 270 bhp.Trouble was it was suffering from the old ignition coil pack problem that used to blight these engines as i'm lead to believe.I was informed that this car was the most grin inducing car that one of the rolling road oporatives had driven. This wasn't due to the quantity of power, and it seemed to have plenty, no, it was due to the way in which this little car put it on the road.Actually thats a lie, its due to the way in which it didn't put all of the power on the road. It put about two thirds on the road and rest was used as a combination of crude passive steering and ditch finding.Select first gear and accelerate away, ow my god, and handful of right lock, grab second... f**K and handful of left lock.And it was for sale!!!So i left norfolk with the notion that i must sell the BM and return to my roots, small car, big engine.As witha all bright knee jurk ideas, it was quickly superseeded with another and an S4 was purchased and sold. Some months later when on ebay....I purchased one litre X reged Lupo E for the princly sum of £2500It currently wears a set of Ronal Turbo alloys and yokahama AVS sports, combined with a KW ride height adjustable, but not damping adjustable coil over units.Other modifications to date include a rude boy stainless exhaust back box, only because the old standard one fell off and took with it the section of pipe that a new standard one needed to attach to.So to the plan.The idea is to convert the car to 1.8T power, and to put all the power down.The car must also look once finshed as if the factory had done it, so this means not stripped out and precludes any fabricated wishbones etc.I would prefer as much power as possible, naturally, but i do have a budget. To that end a 150 / 180 hp engine would do.I am aware that there are differences between these engines tuned states and the 225 engine which ultmately limit there tuning potential, unless lots of cash is layed out to add the parts that differ, head, inlet and exhaust and the turbo etc.Four wheel drive is a must! I like a challange and apparently nobody has done this with the Haldex 4x4 parts from a TT yet, so to that end, i have purchased from ebay (notice the common thread) a Haldex 4wd 6sp gearbox from a 225 hp TT. This only cost £150 so bring on more bargains!!!I have also purchased an ECU from a 1.8T Skoda Octavia. As i plan to chip the ECU and thus set up the ECU according to the engines requirements it didn't seem important which 1.8T VAG ECU i purchased. So again i purchased the cheapest from ebay of coarse. Cost 99p plus £7 postage. If anybody knows different i'd be keen to listen.I have had a cursery glance under the rear of the car.....The suspension struts at the rear are located right in the way of the path of a potential drive shaft.The fuel tank is sighted perfectly to impede the path of the prop shaft as is the suspension twist beem.The spare wheel well will also become a casualty.I propose the following....To cut out the spare wheel well and replace with a panel which replicates the floor contours ( bends and folds).To install the MkII Golf Syncro rear suspension and gain discs at the same time.To mount the diff ( not got one yet) on floor pan mounts welded to channel sections as per the Audi S4 etc.To remove the fuel tank and modify with a hole through the centre, if possible depending on whether it is glass fibre construction or as i fear blow moulded plastic. In which case a fabricated aluminium tank will be required. Capacity must be retained or improved upon. I hate petrol stations and prefer to spend my time in pubs as they, if chosen carefully have more attractive staff, and beer. So tank capacity must be top priority.Once the geqrbox is in place, i'm hoping the drive flange will line up with the exhaust tunnel as happened with the Golf Rallye 4wd gearbox used by the german chap and his drag racing black diesel powered Lupo.This will meen relocating the exhaust which i propose will will sit in a channel section let into the passenger footwell.No idea about the battery, i really dont want to locate it in the boot, especially above the floor as the car is used to carry mountain bikes etc and the boot is very small as it is.Any one know wot happens in the Lupo Gti, some say it is located in the floor. Does this mean there is a special panel to do the job?Drive shafts are the obvious thing that people may question. I recently built a GT40, we used Audi transaxle gearbox and vauxhall vectra hub units. This meant making up some cut and shut shafts to check for fit, length, and running clearance. They were then swapped for some purpose made items in high torque resistant steel for about £300/pair.Brakes, i plan to run Lupo Gti front brakes and golf solid disc rears.This may seem weedy to some. I also plan on using carbon metallic pads. These will eat three sets of discs to every set of pads and will remain fade resistant long after larger brakes with more common road use pads ( green stuff) etcAny cheeper alternative suggestions welcomed, especially if the standard subframe can be retained and golf type discs and hubs can be fitted to the existing upright. Must all go into 15" wheels thoughThe only final thing that i am proposing is that the gearbox will not be ECU controlled for its power split. Mainly because i dont want to do the matching and wiring of parts. Instead i propose to understand the inputs weather they be hydraulic or electric servo and provide them with inputs manually from the cars dash board. Switching from front drive to 4wd as and when required.Well thanks for listening. All thoughts welcome. This won't happen overnight, i've yet to buy a house with garage. If anybody spots anything i've proposed doing that simply cant be done or has a suggestion i welcome you to post.I will also post pictures of the car and all progress as they occour.Meanwhile the parts required that i dont yet have are:Syncro rear beamRear diff to match 225 bhp TT (VAG code to follow)Prop shaft for the sameDrive shafts for the sameLupo GTI front subframe and hubs, brakes.EngineWiring loom for engine.Cheerssimon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MK1 GIT Posted December 28, 2006 Report Share Posted December 28, 2006 2 cups of tea later and that sounds good. style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":coffee:" border="0" alt="coffee.gif" /> style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":coffee:" border="0" alt="coffee.gif" /> Look forward to seeing some progress Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WanabeGangster Posted December 28, 2006 Report Share Posted December 28, 2006 Sounds mental. If you pull it off, this will be one hell of a car! Best of luck, keep regular updates and pics! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Loop Posted December 28, 2006 Report Share Posted December 28, 2006 That yellow Lupo AFAIK it's not a GTi, but a normal Lupo with a 1.8T engine in it. As for the brakes, i'd go either to a 4-piston set or upgrade to 280mm discs instead of using standar Lupo GTi ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramirez Posted December 28, 2006 Report Share Posted December 28, 2006 Serious verbal diarria for a first post! Welcome though!It was at the same rolling road session, that i was pointed in the direction of a yellow Lupo Gti.The lupo Gti in question was wearing the private plate LUP O53 and read LUPO S3.As Lukes pointed out, the car infact started life as a sport not a GTi (VW never made a Yellow GTi anyway)Four wheel drive is a must! I like a challange and apparently nobody has done this with the Haldex 4x4 parts from a TT yet, so to that end, i have purchased from ebay (notice the common thread) a Haldex 4wd 6sp gearbox from a 225 hp TT. This only cost £150 so bring on more bargains!!!Unfortunatly for you it has been done. If you check the forum you will find a 150TDi engined one, there are a few topics on it. It does have pictures though, so may-well help you with ideas.Good luck with the project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biggaz Posted December 28, 2006 Report Share Posted December 28, 2006 280mm ( g60-ibiza cupra ) brakes will go behind some 15's and be better than gti stuff, Cheap to buy too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petrified Posted December 28, 2006 Report Share Posted December 28, 2006 (edited) I'll be keeping a keen eye on this one, i love all these new lupo projects coming up, certainly looks like a car for the future as the prices come down.. well, as far as engine transplants and drivetrain/chassis mods go anyway style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":thumbup:" border="0" alt="thumbup.gif" /> Is it worth moving this to readers rides? and sticking some pics up of the car as standard? Edited December 28, 2006 by Petrified Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babs Posted December 28, 2006 Report Share Posted December 28, 2006 mmmm... sounds good!I'd love to have the time/money/space to do something like that!good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigz™ Posted December 28, 2006 Report Share Posted December 28, 2006 Is it worth moving this to readers rides? To me this is certainly tuning!Good look with it mate style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOCK Posted December 29, 2006 Report Share Posted December 29, 2006 this project is pure mental!!!! if you pull it off i'll be doin somethin very similar in years to come! good luck!!!!p.s. welcome to clublupo!NOCK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twisty b-road Posted December 29, 2006 Report Share Posted December 29, 2006 Have you still got the E30 with the 3.5? Or did it get sold? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dubya Posted December 29, 2006 Report Share Posted December 29, 2006 (edited) If you want to run a mechanical 4 wheel drive setup, you'll need the rear diff from the Golf G60 Rallye/Golf G60 Syncro - not the stock diff fitted to the carb'd 1.8 Syncro!. They'll cope easy with 250+bhp being chucked at them. Or the mk3 Golf/B5 Passat V6 Syncro diff at a guess... 4 motion and quattro setups use wizardry to function style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" /> Personally, if it were me... I'd get the back end of an E30 BM. They only have a single carrier plate, which bolts directly to the chassis (under the rear seat) through bushes, and the rear trailing arms are fixed directly to it. The hubs and rear diff then float... making it p*ss easy to transplant into a Lupo for example. Hubs are 4x100PCD and all you'd really have to do is shorten the carrier plate to fit the chassis width. Drive shafts can be shortened to suit, and you should be able to mount it all using the stock lupo struts and springs.Forget front drive totally, and go soley rear drive style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /> Edited December 29, 2006 by Dubya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dubya Posted December 29, 2006 Report Share Posted December 29, 2006 Pic for reference: border="0" class="linked-image" /> border="0" alt="" />That's what hangs under an E30 BMW... Only the carrier plate itself, and the strut tops, locates/positions the entire back end. Simplicity at it's best style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /> Forgot to mention earlier on... The Syncro system works mechanically. The car is front wheel drive to begin with, then uses a transfer box to power the rear diff, through a viscous coupling. Side to side is an even split, and power transfer to the rear wheels is dependant on road speed. Maximum acceleration see's a 60/40 split across the drivetrain; biased towards the front. The rear wheels are only to 'assist' in traction...The 4 motion setup, and quattro, uses wizardry to split the power transfer front to back, and some side to side. I've never bothered to understand the full workings though style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":huh:" border="0" alt="huh.gif" /> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arosaSDI Posted December 29, 2006 Report Share Posted December 29, 2006 brakes why not get Brembo 4 pots of a Cupra r Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigz™ Posted December 30, 2006 Report Share Posted December 30, 2006 brakes why not get Brembo 4 pots of a Cupra r A lad off here bought then sold some as they wouldn't fit behind his 17s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr P Posted December 30, 2006 Report Share Posted December 30, 2006 sounds great! would be one heck of a lupo if you pull it off!if you go with dubya's idea of e30 rear end give me a shout as i work for bmw and there is a couple of specialists near me which break e30/e34 for parts if new is too expensive style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" /> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jez Posted December 30, 2006 Report Share Posted December 30, 2006 A lad off here bought then sold some as they wouldn't fit behind his 17s.They will fit behind 15" compos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The subtle modder Posted December 30, 2006 Report Share Posted December 30, 2006 They will fit behind 15" composdoesnt a cupra R run 18's for this very reason though?wayne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jez Posted January 1, 2007 Report Share Posted January 1, 2007 doesnt a cupra R run 18's for this very reason though?wayne border="0" class="linked-image" /> border="0" alt="" /> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The subtle modder Posted January 1, 2007 Report Share Posted January 1, 2007 ill admit im obviously wrong then style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":blush:" border="0" alt="blush.gif" /> they obviously fitted 18's for the looks style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":shades:" border="0" alt="shades.gif" />wayne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biggaz Posted January 1, 2007 Report Share Posted January 1, 2007 Those brembos are not as big as the cupra R ones though, ibiza cupras will fit behind them compo's (only them though) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sideways-si Posted January 1, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2007 (edited) Serious verbal diarria for a first post! Welcome though!As Lukes pointed out, the car infact started life as a sport not a GTi (VW never made a Yellow GTi anyway)Unfortunatly for you it has been done. If you check the forum you will find a 150TDi engined one, there are a few topics on it. It does have pictures though, so may-well help you with ideas.Good luck with the project.Thanks for the welcome, have been accused of too much verbal before Especially by the better half. My Lupo knowledge is not quite so great so spotting a genuine GTI is a bit behond me at the mo.Now this Lupo with the 150 diesel Engine and 4wd, is it black with side exit exhaust? Has it been videoed drag racing on YouTube. Does it wear German number plates.If its not this one can you point me in the direction of the one you spoke about.I'm a little confused, and was lead to beleave that it was the older gearbox from the golf rallye.I need to speek to the chap i guess especially if he has used the Haldex box and perhaps understands the probems involves in putting it into the Lupo shell.CheersSiI'll be keeping a keen eye on this one, i love all these new lupo projects coming up, certainly looks like a car for the future as the prices come down.. well, as far as engine transplants and drivetrain/chassis mods go anyway border="0" class="linked-image" /> border="0" alt="" />That's what hangs under an E30 BMW... Only the carrier plate itself, and the strut tops, locates/positions the entire back end. Simplicity at it's best style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /> Forgot to mention earlier on... The Syncro system works mechanically. The car is front wheel drive to begin with, then uses a transfer box to power the rear diff, through a viscous coupling. Side to side is an even split, and power transfer to the rear wheels is dependant on road speed. Maximum acceleration see's a 60/40 split across the drivetrain; biased towards the front. The rear wheels are only to 'assist' in traction...The 4 motion setup, and quattro, uses wizardry to split the power transfer front to back, and some side to side. I've never bothered to understand the full workings though style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":huh:" border="0" alt="huh.gif" />Your right this makes a whole lot of sense.I know the BM stuff really well and its cheep.LSD on the rear?? style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":wacko:" border="0" alt="wacko.gif" /> For a bit of sideways action!!I'm going to check the ratios of the diff in the box i have. Edited January 1, 2007 by sideways-si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jez Posted January 1, 2007 Report Share Posted January 1, 2007 Those brembos are not as big as the cupra R ones though, ibiza cupras will fit behind them compo's (only them though)welltheres no way in hell that a lupo is going to need anything bigger than those 305mm brakes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sideways-si Posted January 1, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2007 ill admit im obviously wrong then style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":blush:" border="0" alt="blush.gif" /> they obviously fitted 18's for the looks style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":shades:" border="0" alt="shades.gif" />wayneI would have guessed the same but i wonder if they fit behind my Ronal Turbo 15s.Anyway, how much do you guys recon these are worth? I mean for all the parts required.Which bits, Callipers, Discs, Calliper brakets?Do i need hubs off a specific vehicle or will any Lupo model will do?To me this is certainly tuning!Good look with it mate style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />Thanks to everyone for your warm welcome.Cheers also for all the usefull comments and kindly sharing your knowledge style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":shades:" border="0" alt="shades.gif" /> Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jez Posted January 2, 2007 Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 I would have guessed the same but i wonder if they fit behind my Ronal Turbo 15s.Anyway, how much do you guys recon these are worth? I mean for all the parts required.Which bits, Callipers, Discs, Calliper brakets?Do i need hubs off a specific vehicle or will any Lupo model will do?Thanks to everyone for your warm welcome.Cheers also for all the usefull comments and kindly sharing your knowledge style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":shades:" border="0" alt="shades.gif" /> SiI am 99% sure they wouldnt fit behing Ronal turbosthe Compo MO's pictured are designed with big brake clearance in mind,plenty of kits for a 280mm setup that will fit behind 15s though...simple setup is golf G60 bitsbolts on like for like and you get 280mm discs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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