veedubdude Posted February 6, 2009 Report Share Posted February 6, 2009 Hey dude, only just seen your build-up thread! Looking sweet matey!One thing Ive said before though... What are you doing about the roller rockers, as I see from the page before you could be hitting 220bhp+, which is the right upper limit of them?? If you lose a valve then you be back to square one and ruin new pistons/rods? Surely for the extra few hundred £ a 6N AFH head would cost it would be well worth it? Ive just picked up one myself for £75; obviously plus refurb costs to ensure optimum performance!But good luck with getting it all finished, is looking very professional! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CasperGTI Posted February 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2009 Hey dude, only just seen your build-up thread! Looking sweet matey!One thing Ive said before though... What are you doing about the roller rockers, as I see from the page before you could be hitting 220bhp+, which is the right upper limit of them?? If you lose a valve then you be back to square one and ruin new pistons/rods? Surely for the extra few hundred £ a 6N AFH head would cost it would be well worth it? Ive just picked up one myself for £75; obviously plus refurb costs to ensure optimum performance!But good luck with getting it all finished, is looking very professional! Thanks alot matey.To be honest i didnt think about getting a AFH head, The guy who is doing my head had a look at it and said it should be up for the job. Sadly mine will be a guinea pig for this sort of power although, rothe motorsport get nearly 250bhp out of there turbo one, and ive never herd anything about that going wrong. All i know for sure is the weak points being the piston rings, con rods and gudgeon pin. As JE and carrillio flagged up that the internals were very weak for forced induction. My pistons have an enlarged and strenthened gudgeon pin, and the piston pin bosses and thrust faces have been given more area to suit. Speaking to andy at storm, he also confirmed this, he said the rings are extremly brittle, and told me to make sure i didnt use the std rings as he has seen cases where part of the ring has broken off and destroyed the engine. I then went to look at the rings, tried to take one off the piston and it snapped in to three bits! I think total seal rings were a good idea!Saying that, the rotrex gti engine in the 1.4 was 210bhp, and that was standard internals. I dont think he had any problems, although its off the radar a the moment, which could mean it went bang!.. who knows.John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
16v6n Posted February 7, 2009 Report Share Posted February 7, 2009 Nice work , a friend of mine is building a turbo GTI aiming for 300 hp+ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CasperGTI Posted February 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2009 Nice work , a friend of mine is building a turbo GTI aiming for 300 hp+Who? anyone we know at all?300 Bhp out of the std engine? I take it forged internals? and crank?Im worried about going above 250bhp due to the gearbox.John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noddy Posted February 7, 2009 Report Share Posted February 7, 2009 Saying that, the rotrex gti engine in the 1.4 was 210bhp, and that was standard internals. I dont think he had any problems, although its off the radar a the moment, which could mean it went bang!.. who knows.Johnhe wants bigger power so has had a rethink it did not go bang Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CasperGTI Posted February 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2009 Thats good to know then.Guess ill be up there with the same sort of power now too.Noddy, get your finger out of your bum and get on with yours! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noddy Posted February 7, 2009 Report Share Posted February 7, 2009 Thats good to know then.Guess ill be up there with the same sort of power now too.Noddy, get your finger out of your bum and get on with yours!ok give me £3000 and i will see you at summer fest at santa pod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CasperGTI Posted February 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2009 Sorry i need that £3000 for myself.Cant you go sell your body or something?John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dubbprince Posted February 7, 2009 Report Share Posted February 7, 2009 Hey dude, only just seen your build-up thread! Looking sweet matey!One thing Ive said before though... What are you doing about the roller rockers, as I see from the page before you could be hitting 220bhp+, which is the right upper limit of them?? If you lose a valve then you be back to square one and ruin new pistons/rods? Surely for the extra few hundred £ a 6N AFH head would cost it would be well worth it? Ive just picked up one myself for £75; obviously plus refurb costs to ensure optimum performance!But good luck with getting it all finished, is looking very professional! The AFH head on a GTI bottom end if great for more tunability but i'm 90% sure the water/oil ways don't line up between the two so a custom gasket will be required i'd say...or some slight rethinking on how the two can coincide.John- do you know what the limits are with the standard ECU? you know i'm not aiming for your powerband...i want to remain slightly lower around 180-200bhp...just wondering if the OEM setup can maintain the performance.Are the total seal rings made from a forged material then? also...the specs that JE now have on the corrected pistons, please tell me they can re-create them for mine... the extra will be worth it in the end...and the end is so quickly coming closer!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUB JIMBOB Posted February 7, 2009 Report Share Posted February 7, 2009 Standard ecu is'nt getting good figures at all when remapped.After market ecu, i.e emerald is the only way to go if your hoping for power of 180 - 200 bhp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CasperGTI Posted February 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2009 The AFH head on a GTI bottom end if great for more tunability but i'm 90% sure the water/oil ways don't line up between the two so a custom gasket will be required i'd say...or some slight rethinking on how the two can coincide.John- do you know what the limits are with the standard ECU? you know i'm not aiming for your powerband...i want to remain slightly lower around 180-200bhp...just wondering if the OEM setup can maintain the performance.Are the total seal rings made from a forged material then? also...the specs that JE now have on the corrected pistons, please tell me they can re-create them for mine... the extra will be worth it in the end...and the end is so quickly coming closer!! I really dont know what the std ecu is capable of to be honest any more, all i know is its managed to run andyp's on 4 psi of boost and is fine, probably 150-160bhp i would think. But i really dont know if they are going to be able to take it further. Apparenlty it is the same ecu as one of the golfs, so mabe its doable. I really dont know.Ill ask about the pistons when i call on monday, and see if the drawings can be modified to make the new ones. Ill let you know.Total seal rings, im not sure what there made from, but found in most ARL cars, and alot of the british touring cars, they reduce blow by leakage down to about 2%. where conventional rings can be between 7-20%. At £70-80 a set you cant really go wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noddy Posted February 7, 2009 Report Share Posted February 7, 2009 Sorry i need that £3000 for myself.Cant you go sell your body or something?Johnat the mo i cant even give it away Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyp Posted February 7, 2009 Report Share Posted February 7, 2009 Standard ecu is'nt getting good figures at all when remapped.After market ecu, i.e emerald is the only way to go if your hoping for power of 180 - 200 bhp.If mine is running 4 psi at a poss 150-160 brake at mo on standard ecu.. then im confident of hitting 200 brake with it. .. all it needs is a map which can do this and obv with it being oe there isnt a 'custom' one out there so it has to made.at the mo i cant even give it away aww im sure youd sell it to some poor lady mate!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dubbprince Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 If mine is running 4 psi at a poss 150-160 brake at mo on standard ecu.. then im confident of hitting 200 brake with it. .. all it needs is a map which can do this and obv with it being oe there isnt a 'custom' one out there so it has to made.aww im sure youd sell it to some poor lady mate!!!!! Only thing is...what happened with AW Tracksport helping out on these cars? thought it was possible...anyone have a cost so far on this option of the build?Also, has anyone considered using a megasquirt setup? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver! Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 Just had a catch up on this. Good going John.Are you fitting a bigger fuel tank? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CasperGTI Posted February 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 Only thing is...what happened with AW Tracksport helping out on these cars? thought it was possible...anyone have a cost so far on this option of the build?Also, has anyone considered using a megasquirt setup?Aw tracksoprt? havent even enquired with them, im to concerned with the problems with my pistons at the moment, one problem at a time for me.....Megasquirt is a budget ecu, i had on on my chinquecento. It wasnt the best imo, but each to there own, it did what it had to do.Option for what type of build?Running std internals, conversion could be as low as £2500 doing it yourself, with A TT intercooler and sport radiator, dependant on the ecu from £500-£2000.Mine, custom rad, intercooler, charger pulley and internals,approx 18psi. With a standlaone ecu and throttle body conversion. I think it will be approaching the £6500 mark when finished.Get a company to do it, and add approx £3000 to the cost.Id say that was pretty close tbh.JohnCustom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyp Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 Only thing is...what happened with AW Tracksport helping out on these cars? thought it was possible...anyone have a cost so far on this option of the build?Also, has anyone considered using a megasquirt setup?The chap who is doing my ecu hasnt received the software in order to make the custom program yet.. so mines on hold performance wise until he receives all of this. aw tracksport did MY conversion but not the programming side as as i put in my prev post there is no actual map avaliable for the loop when using the standard ecu. Sorry john..not trying to hijack! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CasperGTI Posted February 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 Yeah just had a 45 min phone converstaion with him.Seing as my piston cock up is proving to be quite a pain, Why did this engine have to be so unique that JE dont even have a full round forging that the piston pin bosses are close enough for the std con rod width!Im either going have to use spacers which is used in race engines in the us now apparently. Or have a box type piston, where the thrust face is way less surface area remade by CP.Im putting the ECU choice on hold now, ive been speaking to lots of people, and all have slightly different views. Andy, your cars the development car..... i wish you all the luck in the world!John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dubbprince Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 John, i'm sorry if it seems i'm hi jacking the thread. I see this as a perfect oppurtunity to voice all of our thoughts on the same subject and help come to a mutual, yet cost effective way to achieve this for all of us Andy- keep us posted on this dude...i dont fancy a huge standalone cost, not if our OEM ecu's can be remapped to suit.John- when i say option, i thought you were planning on using the same guy Andy knows and thus wondered if either of you had a cost for what he's already managed to do to get Andy's car running.How long till JE sort your new pistons? questions questions...lol. Glad you guys haven't lost morale! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyp Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 have to start bumping my thread up then to keep note of any poss developments!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CasperGTI Posted February 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 Rite, where to start.Pistons are more hassle then its worth! heres the story.My JE pistons tunred up, and there made wrong, in such a way that the piston pin bosses are too far appart. So they were contacted to have them remade which was shortly replied with "we dont have a forging that makes the pin boss close enough for this application, and our slipper pistons with this configuration arent designed for forced induction as this is commonly found in NA tuned cars. Sorry"Great, so these pistons are useless, for now. So we went to CP, who said they could do them, and then said to me this morning that they couldnt do them. with the same reasoning as JE.You have to understand that when you have a set of forged pistons made that are a one off set, that they will not make a forging especially for them, infact you need to order nearly 800 pistons from them to have a specific forging made!The lupo engine has piston guided rods, they are very difficult to find a forging for, well infact there arent any forgings available for the lupo engine what so ever in this configuration from the 6 main dealers of pistons that i contacted.... be warned anyone wanting forged internals, you will have the same problem i have had, i assure you.So have ended going to cosworth today. Who came back with "put a berillium copper bush machined in to the piston, we have been running these in some of our engines for over 15 years, berillium copper is now a discontinued material as it is carsonagenic when ground up. We bought a large stock of it and can make the bushes for you" - Obvioulsy paid for by JE.So, the original forged pistons head off to cosworth tomorrow for these special bushes to be fitted. Hopefully i will have them back in the next two weeks. So i can finally start to rebuild.As for the ecu, i have 3 people all wanting to do it, its not that i dont know what i want at all i just want the best, and now have settled a healthy budget to acheive this (approx £2000) I think it will stay with the person who is doing andys as he wants both of our cars for development. He has said to me that if he cannot acheive what is expected out of the engine, that he will fit a DTA or Motec (although they have gone bust) for under my budget cost.The cost for the recoding of the ecu, has been sudgested to me at approx £800-£1000, it could be more or less. I have an idea of the plans, but untill it is actually tried out then i wont divuldge on the information as its a priority for andys to be done.... followed my mine.John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitchell Posted February 21, 2009 Report Share Posted February 21, 2009 my man who is doing my standalone reckons the std ecu will never be right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CasperGTI Posted February 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 Personally i think your right, But im gonna let him have a go with it as he really wants it for development.Hes looking in to make another controller box with some algorithms in it to manage the boost mapping, as thats the only real problem, The std ecu is very similar to one of the other turbo vag range im told, canny remember which one. Its jsut weather the capability is there or not.But like ive said if it dont work out, then it will go to standalone anyway, for a price under my budget.Its something different, needs to be tried out propperly before its deemed a complete fail!John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CasperGTI Posted February 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 Little update.Head is finished and im going to pick it up on saturday for painting, will post pics when its arrived.Pistons, well finally JE have found a forging, all be it a more expensive forging which is compatible with my rods, so no bushes needed, 2 sets of pistons later i add!.... and no extra costs incured by me. The ones with bushes look to be scrapped. The new ones will be with me in 3 weeks time. Fingers Crossed that will be my last problem!!In the mean time, ive stripped out the interior for a deep clean, and some leather work. Ive photoshopped some exterior bits and bobs, but there staying under wraps untill its back on the road .John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTi T Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 Sounds like it's back on track Johnkeep it up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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