Jump to content

E5 & E10 Petrol


Recommended Posts

ok have noticed on the petrol pumps they have started to put on E5 stickers. Now didn't notice them before.

I know my Lupo isn't compatible with E10 as too old.

What will happen? Will all E5 be taken off forecourts.

Just going to have some extra work done on my Lupo but if I have to scrap the car in September what is the point!

Most unhappy.

There must be at least one of you who knows all about this. Thanks M

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, Lupocrazychick said:

ok have noticed on the petrol pumps they have started to put on E5 stickers. Now didn't notice them before.

I know my Lupo isn't compatible with E10 as too old.

What will happen? Will all E5 be taken off forecourts.

Just going to have some extra work done on my Lupo but if I have to scrap the car in September what is the point!

Most unhappy.

There must be at least one of you who knows all about this. Thanks M

No.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

52 minutes ago, LR5V said:

1%  reduction in fuel economy.... considering most of the fuel price is tax - its good news for the treasury!

https://check-vehicle-compatibility-e10-petrol.service.gov.uk/manufacturer/Volkswagen

Only one model of Lupo not suitable:

  • Lupo – 1.4 litre (77kW) FSI made from August 200 to November 2003

Thanks very much. Mine is a 2002 Automatic. Not sure what Engine it has. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've experimented with Ethanol (grain alcohol, or vodka without the water) in Brazil.

The biggest problem is that E absorbs moisture from the air, then the water and ethanol combination turn into acetic acid as the oxygen in the air oxidises the alcohol. You know, the same reaction as how they make spirit vinegar that I like on my chips. Makes wine taste 'corked'.

The acetic acid or vinegar in the petrol isn't a huge problem as there are detergents that help disperse it, but when it's left in a tank for a few months the levels can become really high. Still not a problem, since the tank and most of the fuel system components are made of plastic. The parts that suffer are the aluminium, steel and brass components- if there are any. Stainless steel is fine.

The biggest problem is old E5 or E10 that has become stale. Once left to sit in the fuel pump or injectors it corrodes components from the inside. Fresh stuff is fine and actually gives an octane boost to the fuel. Alcohol based engines (brazil) are more efficient and can generate more power for their size. Clean emissions too.

Don't even mention carburettors.... major, serious problem. Think mowers, two stroke engines and classic cars like my mk2s.

FSI engines are fine with E. Everything is stainless, but never seen one in a Lupo. Didn't think they were an option in cars till around 2005ish, and then beginning in the Golf or TT from memory.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 hours ago, Lupocrazychick said:

ok have noticed on the petrol pumps they have started to put on E5 stickers. Now didn't notice them before.

I know my Lupo isn't compatible with E10 as too old.

What will happen? Will all E5 be taken off forecourts.

Just going to have some extra work done on my Lupo but if I have to scrap the car in September what is the point!

Most unhappy.

There must be at least one of you who knows all about this. Thanks M

14 hours ago, LR5V said:

1%  reduction in fuel economy.... considering most of the fuel price is tax - its good news for the treasury!

https://check-vehicle-compatibility-e10-petrol.service.gov.uk/manufacturer/Volkswagen

Only one model of Lupo not suitable:

  • Lupo – 1.4 litre (77kW) FSI made from August 200 to November 2003

Thanks very much. Mine is a 2002 Automatic. Not sure what Engine it has. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok rang VW. Gave them the details of my Lupo. They went away, it took a little while. They then came back and said my Lupo was Not compatible with the E10 Petrol. However E5 will be continuing.

No Automatic UP..... so looks like at some point might be switching to a Hyundi i10

Could be worse.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

All Lupo's bar the 1.4 FSI are compatible with E10 fuel. E10 is only replacing normal 95 ron unleaded fuel, 98/99 ron will still be E5 rated (due to it being more expensive in the 1st place!) 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

VW probably said that just to cover themselves.

91/95 is the octane rating for the fuel suitable for your engine - 91 is the plain vanilla cheap unleaded & 95 is high octane more expensive unleaded.

11 hours ago, mk2 said:

I've experimented with Ethanol (grain alcohol, or vodka without the water) in Brazil.

The biggest problem is that E absorbs moisture from the air, then the water and ethanol combination turn into acetic acid as the oxygen in the air oxidises the alcohol. You know, the same reaction as how they make spirit vinegar that I like on my chips. Makes wine taste 'corked'.

The acetic acid or vinegar in the petrol isn't a huge problem as there are detergents that help disperse it, but when it's left in a tank for a few months the levels can become really high. Still not a problem, since the tank and most of the fuel system components are made of plastic. The parts that suffer are the aluminium, steel and brass components- if there are any. Stainless steel is fine.

The biggest problem is old E5 or E10 that has become stale. Once left to sit in the fuel pump or injectors it corrodes components from the inside. Fresh stuff is fine and actually gives an octane boost to the fuel. Alcohol based engines (brazil) are more efficient and can generate more power for their size. Clean emissions too.

Don't even mention carburettors.... major, serious problem. Think mowers, two stroke engines and classic cars like my mk2s.

FSI engines are fine with E. Everything is stainless, but never seen one in a Lupo. Didn't think they were an option in cars till around 2005ish, and then beginning in the Golf or TT from memory.

Interesting reading - I don't think I would like to be in Brazil just know... - You should check out Jamie Orr's one week Saveiro build in Brazil on you tube - really mad water cooled stuff going on over there, all pretty much 8V with very big turbo's

Have to say I got a bit excited hearing a higher grade of ethanol fuel will be widespread...that is until I read up on how little ethenol was going in.

I can dimly recall E85 being available at Morrisons, but at the time I didn't have a decent car and like 99.867% of the population I wasn't clued up on what it was... wonder why it failed to take off!

Ethanol is the darling for tuners overseas, volumetrically it needs a lot more than petrol meaning bigger fuel pumps and injectors -  but burns better and the shear amount of fuel they have to dump in cools the cylinders - really helpful in turbo cars

I have seen a TSI engined polo in a scrap yard - bonnet up, engine looks cover off, at a glance it looks just like a normal small block 16v - until you see the massive cast alloy growth on the cam box above the intake where the high pressure fuel pump lives. It definitely is a: once you see it you cant un-see it things!

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Lupocrazychick said:

Well not sure about that. On the petrol cap it says 91/95 Ron whatever that means.

Yeah just like @LR5V said, it's the octane rating. Higher is better when you're racing and have the throttle at wide open most of the time.

Any forecourt petrol available in the UK is absolutely fine for your Lupo. 100%. For regular driving, just use the cheapest you can get. It will be perfect for your engine.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is from the ACEA website, scroll through and you'll see VW/Seat/Skoda 

 

https://www.acea.be/uploads/publications/ACEA_E10_compatibility.pdf

 

Edited by lupogtiboy
Link to comment
Share on other sites

There are so many mistakes on that list, it's not funny. I know it's not an April fool thing, but OMG that is so misleading. This makes me mad!

I don't know how to put this briefly. Engines are shared across ranges, models AND makes. Like ford share engines with vdub, chrysler share engines with fiat and so on. So when they say one is not and the other is ok with E, they really and truly have no idea what they're on about. I'm plain and simply shocked at the misinformation. Speak to the fuel research guys at BP/Castrol research here in Reading.

For example, the FSI engines I did devopment work on, i know have various problems, but they will be fine running on just about any fuel, even a dilute mix of diesel with the petrol! Where did this all start up from? I need to speak to people I know on the council. 

As far as I know, no FSI engine was ever used on a Lupo. Please correct me if I'm wrong. The most sophisticated engine ever used on a Lupo is the 1.4 TDI (sorry Gti people). The FSI system (high voltage, high pressure, multiple squirts of fuel per downstroke, direct into the combustion chamber) started in other premium models. Fuel stratified injection.

Rant over.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 4/2/2021 at 12:40 AM, mk2 said:

There are so many mistakes on that list, it's not funny. I know it's not an April fool thing, but OMG that is so misleading. This makes me mad!

I don't know how to put this briefly. Engines are shared across ranges, models AND makes. Like ford share engines with vdub, chrysler share engines with fiat and so on. So when they say one is not and the other is ok with E, they really and truly have no idea what they're on about. I'm plain and simply shocked at the misinformation. Speak to the fuel research guys at BP/Castrol research here in Reading.

For example, the FSI engines I did devopment work on, i know have various problems, but they will be fine running on just about any fuel, even a dilute mix of diesel with the petrol! Where did this all start up from? I need to speak to people I know on the council. 

As far as I know, no FSI engine was ever used on a Lupo. Please correct me if I'm wrong. The most sophisticated engine ever used on a Lupo is the 1.4 TDI (sorry Gti people). The FSI system (high voltage, high pressure, multiple squirts of fuel per downstroke, direct into the combustion chamber) started in other premium models. Fuel stratified injection.

Rant over.

VW did use the FSI engine in the Lupo, just it's a model that never came to the UK market.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wasn't that a Mexican market model called a "lupo" but is basically a type of polo? There is something on Etka about it too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nope, in Germany they sold the FSI model, basically a petrol version of the 3L

They did sell the Fox in South America badged as the Lupo for a while though....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok :)

AHT was one of the last knockings from skoda that they used in the first lupos. 1L I believe, with... wait for it... push rods! A load of junk with poor scavanging. An old design engine. 

http://www.volkspage.net/technik/ssp/ssp/SSP_203.pdf

The AUC was an evolution of the old Polo breadvan engine I think. 1043cc, but was slightly modded to get it to 1L. A pretty bog standard modern engine. Standard injectors, that sort of thing.

But is the AHT>AUC? i dunno. Too different to be able to compare really. I once helped rebuild an old morris minor engine as a favour, and the AHT is kinda like that... 1950's technology.

Was the FSI engine in Spain/Germany a 4 pot or 3? I didn't think they made any FSIs under 1.6L?

Edited by mk2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's a 1.4 16v FSI engine, engine code ARR. VW did do a 1.4 FSI in the MK5 golf as well, but most are 1.6 FSI

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You're right. Just been reading about it...

http://www.volkspage.net/technik/ssp/ssp/SSP_252.pdf

I wonder how many Vdub made, as I get the impression they were more of an engineering masterpiece (lots of extra expensive manufacturing steps). And it seems that they also used the 1.2tdi 3L gear shift system, but with no idle cancel function.

I've looked at used cars (Lupos) for sale in europe (and sold within the last year) which have the FSI 1.4 engine (not the regular 1.4) and have found not a single one. Interesting. I wonder if they are like the Polo 6N with the 1.4TDI (AMF) engine... Unicorns. I've only ever seen one example of that, and was interested in buying it for storage.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6n with an arc engine is where it is at.

Fsi is essentially a petrol 3l in so many respects 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.