Declared Unsafe to Drive

[minijay]

Some of you may remember I was complaining of my 1.0E's fuel consumption, and an irritating whining noise when in gear... which disappears when coasting in neutral. Driving home today from Chalk Farm, I hear a horrenedously loud whine and random banging noises from under the bonnet... although this time, only when Im not accelerating, as opposed to before, so I stopped... started driving again, and it begins to not accelerate properly, and I had to have a fight with the gearstick to get it into 2nd gear. So I stopped again and called the RAC, Euston Road at 7pm isnt a friendly place to break down so I decided against taking the chance. The RAC arrive in good time, and he declared it unsafe to drive, although he did let me drive it home, but followed me all the way.

I've had this car, from CarCraft, since the 4th Jan 08, so just under 2 months, where do I stand? Am I liable to any costs? And am I alone in thinking this is ridiculous for a car that was supposedly *checked over* 7 weeks ago?

Edited February 27, 2008 by minijay

[lunalupi]

I would be having some serious words with them - thats no time at all to have a car, and I would expect a serious something for it!

[minijay]

What do you advise I do? Its a pain in the ass thinking about public transport again, although I get free travel working for London Transport n all...I'd just rather drive!

Edited February 27, 2008 by minijay

[lunalupi]

Did the RAC tell you what the problem was?

If it's repairable, I'd expect them to pay for the repairs at a garage (of your choice so you know its good work).

If its not repairable, I'd be expecting most, if not all, the purchase price back and they take the car away.

7 weeks is no time to have a car, and its not even really enough time for it to be damaged through lack of maintenance if its supposed to be fully checked beforehand!

[M4T VW]

Carcraft? Theres your problem.

They make no checks on cars at all. There was an investigation on them a year or two agao and most of the cars they sold were unfit for the road.

Also they are less likely to check a car like a 1.0 Lupo.

Find out whats wrong, Get a quote for the work and send it to them

[minijay]

The form the RAC gave me states "Recovered customer to home address as vehicle is unsafe to drive. Suspect bearings in differential collapsed. Requires further investigation". I've been wanting to take it to a garage for ages, but I was told that it would invalidate my 3yr warranty (which I paid £1,400 for), and after having to call 5 times to book a service, being told "we'll call you back", and recieving no call, I finally got a date in the Enfield branch on the 5th March, which I'm going to try and get brought forward, and have the RAC tow the car there. Theres no way I can give the car back and end the finance is there? It's so much hassle, I had to have an argument with them yesterday when I took it back to ask them to fit 2 headlight bulbs, as BOTH headlights had blown, and they said its not their problem as I bought it from the Lakeside branch (I was in Enfield), and I'd have to book it in there... but they always take up to a week, so Im supposed to risk 3 points on my license for not a faulty headlight, but NO headlights, just because they cant be bothered to fit them? Luckily one of the engineers saw/ heard the scene I was making and said he'd do it for me out back. Something so simple, yet so hard to get. Was very thankful to that human who worked there, much more responsive than the robots for staff they have.

[Mitchell]

Carcraft? Theres your problem.

They make no checks on cars at all. There was an investigation on them a year or two agao and most of the cars they sold were unfit for the road.

Also they are less likely to check a car like a 1.0 Lupo.

Find out whats wrong, Get a quote for the work and send it to them

as soon as i saw "CAR CRAFT" I WAS LIKE

[Petes 16V Sport]

I think you've definately got a case! The law states that anything you buy should work for a reasonable amount of time, and this is clearly not reasonable. Go to them with that, and if they don't like it, i'm sure you're local trading standards would love to hear from you.

Get it in writing from the RAC too as you need their evidence.

Go for it!

[2001gti]

car craft is your problem m8! how much apr r u payin 29%???

[minijay]

car craft is your problem m8! how much apr r u payin 29%???

20.9% I think, I'd have to check the paperwork which is at home, I'm sure it's around that mark though. I'm going to call up tomorrow... I'll let you all know how I get on. Thanks for all your help and advice. Everyones telling me to get a different car but I just want my Lupo to work!!!

[Lingloopy]

20.9%

Finance from VW is around 5%! A high street bank could easily sort a personal loan out for less than 15%

[Tigz™]

Headlamp bulbs would not be covered under warranty, its a fair wear and tear item.

Warranty on your gearbox from Carfacts wont be worth having, they only pay a small percentage of the repair, a girl at work bought a car from them, three weeks later the head gasket failed, they offered to pay £19 towards the repair!!!

Check the Terms of and condissions of this warranty.

TBH, the inspection they are suppose to do wont include stripping the gearbox to make sure the bearings are ok.

Sorry to sound harsh, I dont think its right, I'm just explaining how they will get out of it.

[amiller]

have a look at The Sale Of Goods Act 1979. Quote some sections in a letter and threaten legal action.

[jcarroll]

Mate i would first contact them in order to advise them of the issue and get yourself and the issue known. Do this by phone and push to get as far up the company ladder as you can, the higher you get the better. Get a Direct number and full name of whoever you speak to and write down what they say (in short) as this is supporting evidence. Ask them what they are going to do and that you want it immediatly.

Then in the meantime, while waiting for the response i would go and see a solicitor concerning a breach oof contract. They will look at your contract of sale and terms more specifically that confirm the sale of a vehicle in good working order etc. Once they have done this then it becomes a breach of the contract. it could be breach by condition or breach of warranty and this is an important distinction at the remedial stage of the claim. Preferably you want it to be breach of condition and it should be. The second argument that the solicitor will raise concerns a breach of reliance. In accordance with the law stated in the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 and the sale of Goods Act you relied on them selling you a working car that was operational for a reasonable amount of time.

Further to this i would definately contact trading standards who fecking hate people like carcraft and are looking for solid evidence to fine them to the hills. Then theres the OFT who can direct you into the best methods of where to take your claim.

Finally, get the names of the board members and MDs of the company and bombard everyone of them with a letter (signed delivery) demanding a response within 7 working days. You can also state that you will go public with this matter but dont threaten them. The chances are that if they have the bottle to operate the way they do then they wont give two shits.

Hope this helps...sorry its an essay

[IDGM]

Carcraft have been notorious for poor checking, high finance rates and poor after-sales for many, many years. They started out as the local Lada & Yugo dealers in Rochdale I think. The town is blighted by their disused properties (including the warranty centre).

You definately need some advice from Trading Standards before writing to Carcraft to ensure you correctly quote their obligation to you. You may also have protection under the terms of your finance agreement if the car is on Hire Purchase rather than a personnal loan from them - the hiring company is obliged to provide you with a vehicle that functions during the period of hire. It worked for us with a 10 month old MK4 Golf we bought from VW in Warrington when the ECU started to play up.

I'm sure you will not be the first person to knock on Trading Standards door.

Edited February 28, 2008 by IDGM

[dougless]

I am sorry to hear about your problems. I was blissfully unaware of Carcraft until I read this post. I spent a few minutes on their website and it did not look reassuring. They seem to be geared up to offering ‘easy’ credit, which of course would boost their profits.

This link might offer some useful advice:

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/c_secondhand_cars.pdf

My guess is they will try to wear you down with excuses and unreturned calls. You in turn will probably have to become really irritating and ‘waste’ lots of their time before you get any result. I do hope that I am proved wrong and they honour their agreement with you.

Irrespective of any additional guarantee, they should at least fulfil their statutory duty to offer vehicles of merchantable quality unless indicated otherwise. As I understand it, all 2nd hand car dealers have to give you a three month guarantee.

Good luck and persevere if you can.

[Tigz™]

This link might offer some useful advice:

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/c_secondhand_cars.pdf

Very good, thanks for that

[cardaft]

I think they saw you coming unfortunately

I would not settle for anything less than them giving you a full refund and you returning the car.

Get onto trading standard if they are not helpful, and i wouldnt expect them to be.

Then you are free to go and buy a better one with a much much less % rate loan!

Good lcuk with it

[jcarroll]

I would not settle for anything less than them giving you a full refund and you returning the car.

If they do this ill eat the drity front wing on my arosa. They have your money now and the agreement so trading standards or a solicitor is the best option. The financial providers to Car Craft are probably Barclays but it will tell you on your agreement. You can contact them but i dont think they will care as you didnt buy it from them. Also they will frighten you by telling you just how much you owe already!

[2001gti]

i cant quite believe people who buy cars from these places, (im havin no dig at you personally) but surley wen u get the paper work u must see how much APR it is and you must no in yourself that its an absolute joke and a waist of money, they just exploit people.

[jcarroll]

i cant quite believe people who buy cars from these places, (im havin no dig at you personally) but surley wen u get the paper work u must see how much APR it is and you must no in yourself that its an absolute joke and a waist of money, they just exploit people.

To be fair i totally agree, they are slagged on in the news daily and still people continue to buy cars from them. Granted, something needs to be done about it but theres part of me that thinks you had it coming. 20.9% !!!!

[minijay]

In my defence, when buying a 1st car, these are things that must be experienced to be learnt from. The way in which Im going to pay the car off is to take out a loan and pay it off... then pay the bank back, works out cheaper that way. Had the car towed to Alan Day Volkswagen On the North Circ, and they said it may or may not be covered by the warranty, depending on whats wrong with the differential... they also gave an estimate of £1,600 if it needs replacing. In the smallprint of the warranty, it states that they only pay up to £1,295, anything above, I have to pay for... lord almighty. What do I do!?!?!?!?

[minijay]

Mate i would first contact them in order to advise them of the issue and get yourself and the issue known. Do this by phone and push to get as far up the company ladder as you can, the higher you get the better. Get a Direct number and full name of whoever you speak to and write down what they say (in short) as this is supporting evidence. Ask them what they are going to do and that you want it immediatly.

Then in the meantime, while waiting for the response i would go and see a solicitor concerning a breach oof contract. They will look at your contract of sale and terms more specifically that confirm the sale of a vehicle in good working order etc. Once they have done this then it becomes a breach of the contract. it could be breach by condition or breach of warranty and this is an important distinction at the remedial stage of the claim. Preferably you want it to be breach of condition and it should be. The second argument that the solicitor will raise concerns a breach of reliance. In accordance with the law stated in the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 and the sale of Goods Act you relied on them selling you a working car that was operational for a reasonable amount of time.

Further to this i would definately contact trading standards who fecking hate people like carcraft and are looking for solid evidence to fine them to the hills. Then theres the OFT who can direct you into the best methods of where to take your claim.

Finally, get the names of the board members and MDs of the company and bombard everyone of them with a letter (signed delivery) demanding a response within 7 working days. You can also state that you will go public with this matter but dont threaten them. The chances are that if they have the bottle to operate the way they do then they wont give two shits.

Hope this helps...sorry its an essay

I'm going to try all this, thanks for the advice. If they'd pay for the repairs (which a manager my neighbour just spoke to said they would because its covered by the guarantee, even though I was told earlier it wasnt covered because I'd exceeded the 3,000 mile limit), then I'd keep the car because when it does work, its great. I'd take a loan from the bank, pay off the finance, which is with GE Money (Not Barclays as someone mentioned), and then everything will be fine (ish). But right now, its just unnecessary hassle. They're awaiting diagnosis of the problem, which, if down to mechanical failure, is covered. However, if the fault is down to wear & tear (which I would deserve a medal for, managing to f**k up a gearbox in 2 months because, according to VW, this is impossible), then apparantely I am liable for every cost and every penny is coming from my pocket. Regardless of whether the cars covered or not, and regardless of who pays, I'm still going to the trading standards for the sheer headache and the fact that I'm paying for a car... that is unfit (at the moment) for the road.

Thanks alot to everyone for their help and advice, and although some of you are apoligising for being negative (which you actually arent!!)... I appreciate it all none-the-less. I'll keep you updated on how things go.

[NBR]

Hi minijay good luck with this. I really mean it.

Just so you know:

There is no "lemon" law in this country- so they don't "have" to give your money back automatically. Its a very long, drawn out process so you need to tackle it head on, you can't do it half hearted. Keep a detailed diary of events.

They are responsible to provide you with a product in merchantable quality for 3 months(at least).

Be very careful if you take out a loan to pay off a HP aggreement, you don't want to be paying interest on top of interest.

And with regards to your APR your paying. Are you paying PPP/PPi? If so, can you cancel it? APR is NOT a true reflection of the amount you are paying. Yes you FLAT RATE is high around 12%. But check the total cost your paying back in £'s don't compare by APR's.

And no one's in any position to comment on what APR your paying. Because they don't know:

-Amount you borrowed.

-Term of Loan

Even if they do know that, they don't know your credit score. So it may of been a really good rate for your circumstances. I've charged 25% flat rates (52%APR), but thats set out by the finance company not me.

If you need help with any of this feel free to Pm me and then we can talk on the phone. Also i'm only around the corner from Enfield Carcraft, so if you want to do it in person your more than welcome.

Car Craft do advertise to be cheap, but in reality they charge so far over the odds its insane... They once even told me renault only make a clio "172 cup"... and there was no such thing as a 172 with a/c,lth etc etc.

All the best

Neil

[jcarroll]

You said yourself that its your first car and you learn from your mistakes. Looks like you had a good plan it just back fired. id try what i told you mate. Ive gotta use my law degree for sumet lol...best of luck mate