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It's the other way round isn't it ?

You make your choice then pays your money

Typically the kind of person who is likely to remap a n/a car is likely to purchase further mods which require/benefit from a remap.

Mr John Average isn't likely to remap a n/a car for 8bhp of improved "driveability".

Kieron is one of the few exceptions.

If we're being pedantic about correct phrases - isn't it Mr JOE Average??!! rolleyes.gif style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":rolleyes:" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" />

Can we not just leave it that you wouldn't choose to remap your GTI and yet we have ours?! After all, as is said on CL soooo many times, everyone is entitled to their own opinion - freedom of choice is a wonderful thing.

Please be quiet now - this is getting boring.

Amen.

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? I am getting my gti remapped with no other mods - never said I wasn't!

I wasn't being pedantic about the correct phrase, I was saying that no one just goes out and buys without thinking.

All I was saying is due to the nature of people in relation to tuning unmodified N/A cars.

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? I am getting my gti remapped with no other mods - never said I wasn't!

I wasn't being pedantic about the correct phrase, I was saying that no one just goes out and buys without thinking.

All I was saying is due to the nature of people in relation to tuning unmodified N/A cars.

You seem to have contradicted youself there buddy!! Anyhow, I don't disagree that a lot of people that want a remap will also want exhaust, filter blah blah blah and yes like I said, having the map done last would be the best thing to do if you're willing to carry out multiple mods and spend plenty of dough but there will be many on here who will only have around £300 to spend on getting more power and in my book this is the best way.

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Okay, now we've all picked at each other, got a bit petty, and basically followed each other around like sheep, ranting and raving, let's understand one thing...

There is NO budget in motor tuning. There is NO set approach, that gives you a set amount of horsepower in return for your money. IF you choose to tune your motor, you tune it by reducing it's weakness - not by spending money on something, just because it's the amount of money you may have to spend.

I'll put it another way, so it's not so technically babbling: I want to run some fancy wheels on my car. I have £200, which will buy me one wheel. Therefore, i'll buy that one wheel, and put it on. Proper Schweet... It's this same cack-handed approach to tuning your motor, that people seem to think is acceptable - or the norm. It's crap, and everyone knows it.

Jabbasport couldn't give a **** if it's a backwards approach to tuning. It's money. End of. Customer loyalty in the shape of Kieron and his GTi, doesn't wash with me. Whether it has improved your 'driveability' it's still backwards, and you'd have to be backwards to tune your motor in that route.

Now...

There is NO magic mod. There is no conversion from Pounds Sterling to Horsepower. Manufacturer's spend MILLIONS developing motors in the first place, so your £300 is going to do very little in the way of making it faster.

The weakness on the GTI, as I've said before, is the exhaust side of the head, and it's gas release characteristics, all the way to the backbox.

You can buy a cat back system. May sound nice, may look nice. Does jack for performance gains, on it's own.

You can buy a BMC. It may have a nice big carbon box that the filter sits in. It may make a nice noise. It does jack for performance gains, on it's own.

You can buy spark plug leads. They now come in fancy colours, and bigger sizes. The core is still the same, the coil still delivers the same spark, and the lead still delivers that same potential. Again, does jack for performance. They only reduce interference, if your motor is highly tuned, and likely to be affected by it.

So, to the head. £500 is about the rate for a fully gas flowed, usually big valve, racey spec head, fully rebuilt, and bought on an exchange basis. You don't need that on the Lupo. The intake is fine. It doesn't need bigger valves, as your not likely to run higher revs, or forced induction. Take your head off, have the exhaust side flowed out, and you're probably looking at £150-200 or so. You can expect to see 10-15 horsepower (peak) and a massive gain in torque. The motor will rev quicker, and will run better at higher revs.

So the next stage, the header. The openings, and the pipe itself on the stock header are tiny. ALL the power developed, is TOTALLY dependant on how well THAT header can move exhaust gasses, and still create a vacuum on change over. There are exhaust headers available for the GTI. I seem to remember a group buy at one point. They will increase horsepower, and torque, and therefore, driveability. No doubt, you could probably have a custom one made, for that £300. You can probably expect to see anything from 5-15hp, depending on the header.

Going on, the downpipe. The 4 into 1 collector, and downpipe setup on the GTI is another restriction point. Scrap it totally, and look at running a true 4 branch header setup, as mentioned above.

And and and...

Tuning a motor is a lengthy process. You have to have one part done, before you will ever see any gain from anything else that you do. Fitting a camshaft will do nothing for performance, if the head is still stock. Fitting a custom header will do nothing if the head is still stock. Fitting a cat back system will do nothing if the header is stock...

Are we starting to understand yet...?

As, and when you decide to tune your motor, you tune it as much as you can. Head, headers, exhaust, cams etc. THEN you take it somewhere, and have the fueling mapped to optimise performance and power delivery. Turbo, or forced induction motors CAN benefit from remapping, as generally manufacturer's will restrict it's performance via the fueling. They'll build a motor, turbo it, then typically turn the fueling down, so that you get a reliable peformance level. With Normally Aspirated motors, in the shape of the GTi, is it entirely different. The fueling isn't turned down to any great extent, so without tuning, there is NO POINT in remapping the stock setting.

Also...

With tuning a motor, comes reliability issues. The motor now runs hotter, uses more fuel, and undertakes more stress when running. Something is going to break... it's not a question of IF, but WHEN. If you choose to tune your motor, EXPECT to find that it wont run very well in traffic. It'll be a nightmare on the school run, and it'll generally start to cook itself as it humps and bumps about. You'll find that you can't use any extra power it now has on your journey to work, and you'll end up hating it. The little Lupo that you once loved so much, is now starting to get on your nerves.

Another thing. All this power... what about the drive train? The brakes? The wheels and tyres? Should I go on...?

You've TOTALLY missed the point rolleyes.gif style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":rolleyes:" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" />

Its the driveability! I CANNOT believe you have forgotten the Driveability

laugh.gif style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":lol:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" />

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Your sig says it all mate laugh.gif style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":lol:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" />

Tune your motor, then come talk to me about driveability wink.gif style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />

what the crap does driveability even mean?

laugh.gif style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":lol:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" />

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I wouldn't mind having mine chipped.

I also wouldn't mind having a Porsche or Angelina Jolie.....

Opinions are like a**holes, everyones got one. Lets all just be friends.

BTW, interesting post about explaining how to tune the engine, like it! rolleyes.gif style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":rolleyes:" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" />

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"Something is going to break... it's not a question of IF, but WHEN"

Pesimistic ALERT !

hehe I know a few people who have had tuned cars that have ran healthy for years and they've not uprated all the internals to cope with the increased power, then again I know some people where stuff has gone KA-BOOM! smile.gif style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

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I give up. Forget I ever said anything on this. Dubya, you're clearly the man!!! rolleyes.gif style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":rolleyes:" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" /> Some people are entirely missing the point and I'm continually repeating myself! The thread was a review of our remap, not a great debate about how to extract maximum gains out of a gti engine with unlimited budget otherwise we could get Darren to post up and p*ss on everyones chips!! We're getting nowhere here.

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Would all head tuners know about this restricted exhaust side of the head?, cos it seems as though, they justed want to charge around £500 to port and polish an not do exectly whats needed. £200 seems alot better if thats all thats needed.

Any ideas where they would do this??

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"Something is going to break... it's not a question of IF, but WHEN"

Pesimistic ALERT !

hehe I know a few people who have had tuned cars that have ran healthy for years and they've not uprated all the internals to cope with the increased power, then again I know some people where stuff has gone KA-BOOM! smile.gif style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

i have ran a car for a year without any air filter and with direct scoop from front grill. so i got all the flies and dirt etc into the engine, but it didnt go bang and the performance was great. not good for longetivity i guess though, but i wasnt bothered the destiny of the car was to perform at its best until it went wrong. usually thats kind of thing is only done on the race track.

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Perhaps we need a thread on stages and ways to get the best out a GTi engine, not just someones opinions but proper tried and tested stuff.

Now theres obviously some clued up people on here, but this guys thread was about a review on his map and not other peoples ways to tune an engine coffee.gif style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":coffee:" border="0" alt="coffee.gif" />

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Now theres obviously some clued up people on here, but this guys thread was about a review on his map and not other peoples ways to tune an engine coffee.gif style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":coffee:" border="0" alt="coffee.gif" />

Agreed - what's pi**ed me off is the negative attitude about our decision to have the remap and the saracstic comments directed towards Kieron - all he posted up was a review of it in order to be helpful to other owners who might be interested in doing the same to theirs!!

I'm hoping that this thread has run it's course and can be left alone now.

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Agreed - what's pi**ed me off is the negative attitude about our decision to have the remap and the saracstic comments directed towards Kieron - all he posted up was a review of it in order to be helpful to other owners who might be interested in doing the same to theirs!!

I'm hoping that this thread has run it's course and can be left alone now.

Indeed....

It was your choice to have it done, as it turns out you didn't have to pay but were intending to, it has improved the car a little, and you are happy with it! For anyone who wants to have a remap, it sounds like a good job at a reasonable price. For anyone who wants to tune the engine to the max, they will go ahaead and have it done whatever the cost and will also be happy.

Horses for courses....

Personally I would fit a k&n panel, some cold air ducting and then have this done and be happy with that. From what you have told us, I would pick this company to do it as it sounds very good, thanks for the info.

cool.gif style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="B)" border="0" alt="cool.gif" />

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Indeed....

It was your choice to have it done, as it turns out you didn't have to pay but were intending to, it has improved the car a little, and you are happy with it! For anyone who wants to have a remap, it sounds like a good job at a reasonable price. For anyone who wants to tune the engine to the max, they will go ahaead and have it done whatever the cost and will also be happy.

Horses for courses....

Personally I would fit a k&n panel, some cold air ducting and then have this done and be happy with that. From what you have told us, I would pick this company to do it as it sounds very good, thanks for the info.

cool.gif style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="B)" border="0" alt="cool.gif" />

thats exactly what i have done, performance panel, custom ducting, and a powerchip (which i'm sure will give same power as the jabba version).

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I took my charcoal cannister out to get the pipe down to lower grill, just need to attach it somewhere..

Can we pin all the points in tuning an engine up, edit it so just have info..

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way i see it is you can but all these cams in and change all your internals and it'll be wicked when your ragging the tits off it but when your driving it on ya daily drive like a normal person it's going to run like a bag of crap imo 300squid for 10bhp proven is quite reasonable

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way i see it is you can but all these cams in and change all your internals and it'll be wicked when your ragging the tits off it but when your driving it on ya daily drive like a normal person it's going to run like a bag of crap imo 300squid for 10bhp proven is quite reasonable

My sentiments exactly

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