Help! Any tips to revive old Lupo?

[JedB]

Hi guys.

I have a 2001 Lupo 1.0 (70,000mi) thats was in the family for 7 years and well taken care of. Most recently had a new pedal box welded up and painted and reinstalled with a new clutch.

Sadly my sister had been unable to drive the vehicle for 3+ years and it had been sat with some intermittent starting to begin with but at least 1+ year of no starting and 3+ years not driven.

We did notice on a service a few years before she obtained it that the spark plugs were very carbony all black at the ends but replaced them (less than 1 year before it was left sitting) im not sure if this could be related but doubt it as car was running fine until it was left sat and may be something else we need to investigate once it gets running.

We have changed the oil and filter and air filter, we have changed the plugs and charged the battery with trickle charger. All the electrics are back to life and working now but the vehicle is cranking but not starting!

Does anyone have any other suggestions of what we could try? Someone suggested changing the fuel filter which I will do tomorrow but they said may need to do the pump too.

Any suggestions are really greatly appreciated!

[mk2]

Classic stored car syndrome. But not a problem. @Rich @lupogtiboy @ObjectiveAway  @tigcraft @Adam Meader @amgeriz what do you think?

You know when you burn petrol you get CO2 and water vapour resulting from the combustion process, if the engine was started regularly but not driven, the trapped condensation (water vapour) coats everything inside the engine when it cools down again. And the inside of the engine being steel (cylinder liners), they start to rust. As do the valves and the piston rings. And the exhaust system.

So the piston rings get stuck, the valves don't give a perfect seal and the rough corroded surface of the cylinders also prevents a good seal. So when you try starting the thing, you get no compression and as a consequence no firing up. Changing all the components/filters/oils won't make any difference (I'm assuming you have a good fresh fuel supply and ignition sparks in the plugs).

What usually works is to pull all the plugs out and put about a teaspoon or so of clean engine oil into each hole. Then spray a five second squirt of WD40 mist or similar in there to try and create a temporary seal on the valves. Leave the plugs out and crank away for 20 seconds every five minutes over an hour. You're trying to coat all the internals with oil and free up the stuck rings. Keep the battery on charge and don't burn out the starter motor.

Then replace the plugs, cross your fingers and try starting it again. Garage door open as there'll be LOTs of smoke and noise. Crank with wide open throttle (if your engine is manual cable throttle) to try and get max compression. If it starts firing, keep cranking with your foot on the throttle until it runs by itself, but do NOT rev it above 1500. As you could permanently wreck the engine. You're trying to get the internal surfaces to make friends again. Hold it at 1500 until the engine fully warms up.

Don't just switch off when done. When it's nice and hot, rev it up to about 3000 and hold it there- then switch off and then take your foot off the throttle with the engine still spinning fast. The idea is to keep the engine spinning, with no fuel or ignition to get the bores and lower pistons rings fully coated with oil. Allow to fully cool down, then see if it starts first time. If not, you'll have to do it all again and then take it for a good motorway run for about half an hour. 

You may also want to change the belts, change the brake fluid and flush the gearbox 👍🏻 And wipers. And coolant.

End of essay. let us know how you go.

[tigcraft]

@mk2 nicely worded!! What I would do to add to that is air intake pipe off and ‘chuck a grenade in it’ with some easy start, or squirt some ‘premium’ high octane petrol down the plugs then start it. Although OP says all the electrics are back and working, does that include spark plugs too? 

[mk2]

Yeah, good idea. Some easy start would be worth a try if after first try there's nothing...

[amgeriz]

Hi everyone!
I would check for fuel and spark. With key contact you need to hear the fuel pump relay on the fuse area and the pump from behind, and when it achieve work pressure they must stop, if not, there is no fuel pressure in the injection ramp. If it's fine take one old spark plug, and try to plug all four leads on it one by one, while the steel body is touching the engine, and crank it searching for spark. If there is no spark I would try a new crank sensor. That's a good start. If everything is fine i would continue trying all four injectors mounted on the ramp but out of the engine. Next I would try to borrow or buy a vagcom cable and software.
Cheers!

[Rich]

Since it's a crappy non starting one litre I would do as I always do and start by sucking the vacuum pipes and checking the one way valves etc are working. 

I hate auc engines. 

[ObjectiveAway]

On 1/9/2025 at 6:19 PM, JedB said:

All the electrics are back to life and working

Do You have spark?

This engine is really simple, remove the air filter and you will have easy access to everything. You should be able to start it and it should make some misfires.

I agree @Rich, its not the best engine at all, more over @JedBhave Euro 4 version, which needs two catalytic converters and working second O2 sensor to make it working properly.

[JedB]

First off:

Thankyou so much for all of your suggestions. I have only gotten round last week to having time to pop over and give these ideas a go.

I copied advice from @mk2 and did tiny bit of oil in cylinders and replaced the plugs (they were very sooty) and sprayed some easy start inside, it ran straight away and cuts out, the more i spray itll run nicely off of it. Some little dying revs with the foot pedal but almost non-existant, no notable increase in RPM.

I did an OBD scan and only one code which is fuel level sensor reading error. Cleared it but came back as soon as restarting engine which is odd but no other faults showing.

Removed the two fuel pipes i could see at the plastic fuel rail and cranked with pedal but no fuel coming out. Don’t hear anything from fuel pump either.

Now I am wondering, I have removed the relay for the fuel pump (410, 8pin) I am thinking about replacing this (£45) or buying a fuel pump for £70 and replacing, any ideas would be greatly appreciated as i hear no sounds from fuel pump itself or the relay. Perhaps i take the £45 relay simple job first then try the fuel pump? Just find it odd that its happened whilst sat but runs beautifully and quiet with fuel or easy start sprayed into the engine.

Thanks again everyone

[mk2]

Yeah, so a fuel problem now. Easy to fix.

Fuel? Fuel pump? Fuel filter? Fuel pressure regulator? Fuel pump control relay? Fuel signal control connection from the ECU to the fuel control relay? Fuel pump fuse?

[Main power supply bus to power rail for power on system (probably none of these if there's ignition)? Main power supply bus fuse? Main power relay? Main power relay control signal from ECU? Ignition switch?]

[JedB]

8 minutes ago, mk2 said:

Yeah, so a fuel problem now. Easy to fix.

Fuel? Fuel pump? Fuel filter? Fuel pressure regulator? Fuel pump control relay? Fuel signal control connection from the ECU to the fuel control relay? Fuel pump fuse?

[Main power supply bus to power rail for power on system (probably none of these if there's ignition)? Main power supply bus fuse? Main power relay? Main power relay control signal from ECU? Ignition switch?]

Didn’t realise so many possibilities at the same time as easy fix! Fun starts.

I tested the fuel pump fuse you mention and all fine. No sounds from relay so I think I am going to replace the fuel pump relay next. We did the fuel filter already. There is good ignition.

I’ll feedback how we do with a new fuel pump relay. Then if no luck I may have to check the fuel signal control connection which may not be simple for me.

Fingers crossed it’s this 410 8pin relay, do you think if it’s not a new fuel pump wouldn’t be a bad idea?

Edited February 20 by JedB

[mk2]

Bridge a wire link in the relay socket to force the pump to run...

[JedB]

On 2/20/2025 at 8:24 PM, mk2 said:

Bridge a wire link in the relay socket to force the pump to run...

Tried with replacement relay for fuel pump, still no fuel coming through. Fiel supply wires seem to be ok.

I think new fuel pump is next.

[ObjectiveAway]

14 hours ago, JedB said:

Tried with replacement relay for fuel pump, still no fuel coming through. Fiel supply wires seem to be ok.

I think new fuel pump is next.

Did you measure the voltage? Just to make sure there really is electricity for fuel pump..

[JedB]

On 2/25/2025 at 8:50 AM, ObjectiveAway said:

Did you measure the voltage? Just to make sure there really is electricity for fuel pump..

I did indeed and there was some electricity to the fuel pump! So figured had to be fuel pump.

 

Replaced this and boom started first time! Thanks everyone. Will get fluids changed etc next.

[JedB]

@tigcraft @mk2 @Rich @ObjectiveAway @amgeriz

Thanks for your help - so glad it’s running. Flushed all the fluids and changed wipers. I can see I have a perished bush on the wishbone which I initially thought was a droplink, can anyone please use their expertise identifying?

Also this white part of the exhaust looks worse for wear, wondering if I buy this whole set of exhaust from eBay, any advice appreciated as smoke is escaping.

I am now going to trawl the forums and youtube on changing aux belt, I think cam belt and water pump will be in order too but at a garage but then we should be ready for an MOT!

[tigcraft]

It’s the anti roll bar link bush. Please please please use a bit of thick 6”x 6” plywood to support the car and not like you’ve done as old cars are thin in those corners!! 

[mk2]

OMG! Don't jack it up there, it'll go straight through the floor! Not a jacking point... The right place is on the sill triple edge, just below the little arrow marking. Hope the floor pan is ok after this.

There's very little rust under the car. I'd get the whole underside pressure treated with waxoyl or similar to keep it looking that good!

Yeah that's just a down pipe, with some heat wrap around the flex joint I'm guessing. Go for Ernst, Walker or Otto brand exhaust bits. Autodoc? And like @tigcraftmentioned, anti roll bar drop links. There are two sizes. Make sure you get the 18mm hole...(not Gti).

 

[JedB]

@tigcraft @mk2 Thankyou both so much. I did have an axel stand under too before going under, I see the triple sill now, thanks alot, appears to be no marks where I jacked.

I have found the anti roll bar drop links, hopefully they are simple and a couple of bolts. Once new tyres are on tomorrow I can drive onto my little plastic ramps which I much prefer (with a couple axel stands, wheels chocked etc).

I will have a look at Waxoyl - was going to buy the hammerite black paint to touch up alot of areas.

Thanks so much guys - really feeling better about this car for my sister - knew it wasn't scrap as some people advised her - done £160 on 4 brand new 13" tyres, £90 fuel pump, £25 on wipers, £16 coolant, £25 fuel filter+spark plugs and now exhaust and drop links all seems well worth it considering when I owned the car I had the pedal box removed and refurbished and various other labour intense jobs.

Edited March 13 by JedB

[amgeriz]

Glad you have it on the road again!

It's a little bit tricky to mount this arb lower bushes first time, it helps if you do it with one side attached, so you can compress the new upper side bush lifting the wishbone, to be able to thread a little by hand. If you change the entire droplink, vaseline or silicone grease on the arb helps a lot. Check the position too, because they are offset.

Edited March 14 by amgeriz

[JedB]

10 hours ago, amgeriz said:

Glad you have it on the road again!

It's a little bit tricky to mount this arb lower bushes first time, it helps if you do it with one side attached, so you can compress the new upper side bush lifting the wishbone, to be able to thread a little by hand. If you change the entire droplink, vaseline or silicone grease on the arb helps a lot. Check the position too, because they are offset.

Thanks so much. Have ordered the drop links today and exhaust parts. Also ordered brake discs and pads for front - hopefully rear drums+shoes clean up. Am mildly concerned the pads look slightly more worn on one side so caliper may be sticking a little and may need replacing especially now it's been sat for so long.

Alot of people saying the car is not worth saving - giving me more motivation.. lol!

[amgeriz]

Try to unlock it doing all the travel. Retract the piston manually with some lever between the disc and the pad and then brake, until you feel they move freely, and then put the new pads.

If you enjoy the process and know how to fix it, it's fine, whatever you have. 

Edited March 14 by amgeriz

[JedB]

@amgeriz@ObjectiveAway @mk2Hi guys. MOT day today! Didn’t go as well as anticipated lol. Apparently a brake cylinder on the rear is causing alot of the problems involving brakes but said “might” need some brake shoes on rear too?:

Do not drive until repaired (dangerous defects):

• Nearside Rear Service brake has no recorded effort at a wheel (1.2.1 (a) (ii))
• Nearside Rear Hydraulic brake cylinder leaking and braking performance affected (1.1.16 (b) (ii))

Repair immediately (major defects):

• Offside Windscreen wiper does not clear the windscreen effectively (3.4 (b) (ii))
• Front Exhaust has a major leak of exhaust gases flexi (6.1.2 (a))
• Rear Brakes imbalanced across an axle (1.2.1 (b) (i))
• Service brake efficiency below requirements (1.2.2 (a) (i))
• Rear Brakes imbalanced across an axle Axle 2 (1.2.1 (b) (i))
• Exhaust Lambda reading after 2nd fast idle outside specified limits (8.2.1.2 (c))

He also said it may need a catalytic converter but I’m sure there must be something in that the spark plugs are very black within 1year of driving in the sense of it running rich but mechanical knowledge limited. The exhaust leaking is that flexi which I did kind of expect. Windscreen wipers were brand new so will have to double check i’ve fitted all ok which is frustrating.

Any advice input or advice appreciated, thanks again.

[amgeriz]

I think the MOT technician gave you good advice.

[mk2]

There is a known issue with the rear brake shoes. 

The handbrake cable lever which attaches to the shoe, which then applies force evenly to both shoes via a connecting bar and through the self adjusting wear compensator wedge gets stuck.

Chances are there is still a decent amount of material left on the shoes, but the wedge can't move to take up any slack because the handbrake lever won't budge. So when you apply foot pressure the hydraulic cylinder moves to just fill empty space- no brake action.

The solution is to remove the shoes, both sides. Then once out work the handbrake levers loose on the rivet, so they move easily. Clean well. Apply a single drop of oil on the pivot, just to help it stay free. Reassemble. Fixed.  Do the same if you buy new shoes. 👍🏻

Before you start, take a pic of each side once you have the drums off so you know where all the bits go. It can be confusing! 

 

Black plugs means the air:fuel ratio is wrong. Not enough air, or too much fuel. Most common reason is the coolant temp sensor which fails in EVERY vdub of that era. Could be blocked air filter, but unlikely.

[Rich]

Lupo drum clean and maintain is my Wednesday morning job ahead of MOT this week.