Pete0309 Posted September 21, 2020 Report Share Posted September 21, 2020 (edited) My Lupo has been sat idle for ages, after a failed MOT, long enough for the battery to go flat. Charged it up but couldn't find the usual key so tried the spare from the manual, but it wouldn't start the car. Any ideas or solutions? Edit: Car is a 54 plate if that helps. Edited September 21, 2020 by Pete0309 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted September 21, 2020 Report Share Posted September 21, 2020 Starts and cuts out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete0309 Posted September 21, 2020 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2020 8 hours ago, Rich said: Starts and cuts out? Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mk2 Posted September 21, 2020 Report Share Posted September 21, 2020 Immobiliser active. Key needs re-pairing with the car. The car doesn't recognise that spare key... you need to find the original key, or it'll be a case of get a new one from vdub. No easy way out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAB Posted September 22, 2020 Report Share Posted September 22, 2020 15 hours ago, mk2 said: Immobiliser active. Key needs re-pairing with the car. The car doesn't recognise that spare key... you need to find the original key, or it'll be a case of get a new one from vdub. No easy way out. Keep up to speed! http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/Immobilizer_III_Key_Matching_(Cluster) You'll need VCDS. RAB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mk2 Posted September 22, 2020 Report Share Posted September 22, 2020 @RAB have you tried it? @Skezza and me and one or two others have had numerous attempts and have never succeeded. Don't know why, but I think Gtis (& 3L) are different to regular Lupos. I know the clusters are different. Even the automotive lock people I ask tell me they have to pull the dash to bits just to get the SKC. Usually costs about £75 to cut and program (pair) the key in, if aftermarket. If genuine VW, I believe the present cost is £120 + VAT per key. I've managed no probs on Polos, Golfs, Boras and Passats, but never on my SDIs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted September 22, 2020 Report Share Posted September 22, 2020 GTi uses a ceramic chip type thing instead of that glass thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mk2 Posted September 22, 2020 Report Share Posted September 22, 2020 Fun fact (i pretty sure I'm right here...). The little glass ID chip thing is the exact same as used for Pet IDs... they inject that down a big needle! I think a vet can read vw keys. Not helpful at all, but very slightly interesting. 🙄 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ObjectiveAway Posted September 23, 2020 Report Share Posted September 23, 2020 On 9/21/2020 at 10:41 PM, mk2 said: Immobiliser active. Key needs re-pairing with the car. The car doesn't recognise that spare key... you need to find the original key, or it'll be a case of get a new one from vdub. No easy way out. Immobilizer emulator is easy way out, coasts few dollars from china, takes a bit of work and understanding to install it, you will be able to start your car with slotted screwdriver afterwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mk2 Posted September 23, 2020 Report Share Posted September 23, 2020 Immo emulators don't work on Lupos... I've tried. Passats, Polos, Golfs, Boras etc. Yeah, no problem. The Lupo is special... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skezza Posted September 23, 2020 Report Share Posted September 23, 2020 On 9/22/2020 at 3:27 PM, mk2 said: @RAB have you tried it? @Skezza and me and one or two others have had numerous attempts and have never succeeded. Don't know why, but I think Gtis (& 3L) are different to regular Lupos. I know the clusters are different. Even the automotive lock people I ask tell me they have to pull the dash to bits just to get the SKC. Usually costs about £75 to cut and program (pair) the key in, if aftermarket. If genuine VW, I believe the present cost is £120 + VAT per key. I've managed no probs on Polos, Golfs, Boras and Passats, but never on my SDIs. I was able to on my SDI but my GTI is having none of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mk2 Posted September 23, 2020 Report Share Posted September 23, 2020 Why do you think that happens? On some identical cars you can access the SKC, other's won't have any of it... It's been puzzling me too. I remember we had this discussion about 4 years ago. Never came to a conclusion. My SDIs all behave differently to each other. Almost as if they each have their own personality, which I know is nonsense. I just dunno. It's very odd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ObjectiveAway Posted September 24, 2020 Report Share Posted September 24, 2020 16 hours ago, mk2 said: Immo emulators don't work on Lupos... I've tried. Passats, Polos, Golfs, Boras etc. Yeah, no problem. The Lupo is special... Good to know, im surprised because my 1.4 8v Lupo Bosch ECU looks exactly the same like Polo ECU for same engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAB Posted September 24, 2020 Report Share Posted September 24, 2020 On 9/22/2020 at 3:27 PM, mk2 said: @RAB have you tried it? @Skezza and me and one or two others have had numerous attempts and have never succeeded. Don't know why, but I think Gtis (& 3L) are different to regular Lupos. I know the clusters are different. Even the automotive lock people I ask tell me they have to pull the dash to bits just to get the SKC. Usually costs about £75 to cut and program (pair) the key in, if aftermarket. If genuine VW, I believe the present cost is £120 + VAT per key. I've managed no probs on Polos, Golfs, Boras and Passats, but never on my SDIs. You will need the SKU for Immobiliser Gen 2 (2000-2001) and Gen 3 (later Lupos). If you haven't got the SKU, you can recover it with Vag Commander usually (it works on all our cars except one, maybe because the ECU has been replaced, but I know the SKU anyway). VCDS won't recover the SKU. You need to add a zero to the SKU at the front. Details here: http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/Immobilizer It's been done many times on A2OC with VCDS. Lupo Gti and 3L won't be any different. I ordered a new key for an Up yesterday (Gen 4). Cannot be done with VCDS. Cost £172 plus possible pairing cost! RAB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mk2 Posted September 24, 2020 Report Share Posted September 24, 2020 (edited) @Skezza has spent many hours on this subject, with lots of moral support from all. From memory, I think it has something to do with early and late Lupos having different security systems. I lose the will to live when I start going down the ID44 or ID48 rabbit hole, as there's so much conflicting info on the web. Also early and late clusters seem to have some effect on results. I'll probably start on the subject again if I lose a key- one of my Lupos still only has just one key registered. I have a new metal copy and an ID chip. That's as far as I managed. I can program and remap ECUs, design emulators and mess with all the electronics. But Lupo security has me beat. @RAB, that is just silly money. For a KEY! Edited September 24, 2020 by mk2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAB Posted September 25, 2020 Report Share Posted September 25, 2020 Yes, 2001 Lupos and earlier are Gen 2, later are Gen 3. See the link that I provided. At least your Lupos are secure - from you! Can't be that secure: https://www.keymoon.uk/vw-lupo-key-hu66t.html RAB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAB Posted September 25, 2020 Report Share Posted September 25, 2020 On 9/21/2020 at 2:58 AM, Pete0309 said: My Lupo has been sat idle for ages, after a failed MOT, long enough for the battery to go flat. Charged it up but couldn't find the usual key so tried the spare from the manual, but it wouldn't start the car. Any ideas or solutions? If your existing key is a remote, first check that it has a good battery. Then turn on ignition without starting and press lock and unlock a few times. That should re-synch your key without using VCDS. RAB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAB Posted September 25, 2020 Report Share Posted September 25, 2020 Another complication is that there are two different wavelength variants. If you buy the wrong type blank, it won't communicate whatever you do! RAB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAB Posted September 28, 2020 Report Share Posted September 28, 2020 (edited) I've found someone on Ebay who can supply cut blades from a photograph. Note that PIN he requests is the key PIN, not the immobiliser PIN/SKU. The two are different. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VW-KEY-BLADE-FREE-CUT-TO-CODE-OR-PICTURE-FREE-POSTAGE/114395057226?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l264 RAB Edited September 28, 2020 by RAB Correction/addition Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mk2 Posted September 28, 2020 Report Share Posted September 28, 2020 Yeah, that's the way I did it. Like £3 or something. But a brass not a steel "ate brand" key. There are a few people who can do that, as each tumbler has 4 distinct positions if I remember correctly. So it's easy enough to simply reproduce a key from a pic. If you've ever dismantled a vdub lock barrel (to change that stupid horse shoe shaped lock ring, which snaps), you'll see it's like a digital code, where each bit has 4 values, each referenced to the lower edge. Also handy if you need to change all the barrels, and recode them. Don't show people pics of your keys! So you can get into the car and unlock the steering column. But not drive it. It's the unpairing of the ID chip that causes the lock out, where the key symbol pops up on the cluster display. And then the ECU allows you to start the car and then it cuts out 2 seconds later. Hey, I just thought- I wonder if the ECU allows a rolling bump start, without using the starter motor??? You're running a different part of the software, possibly skipping the start sub routine. Something I need to try just out of curiosity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAB Posted September 28, 2020 Report Share Posted September 28, 2020 (edited) The problem is that nobody I've found will cut someone else's key. Yes, with a new key, all keys have to be paired with VCDS and the SKU. However, the OP's original key should still work as a manual key, even with a flat (key) battery. I very much doubt that an ECU will allow any useful start with an un-synched key. RAB Edited September 28, 2020 by RAB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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