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edwrai

16394 - Bank 1: Camshaft A (Intake) P0010 Lupo GTI

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5 hours ago, edwrai said:

I have indeed, another actuator has been tested. 
 

I have VCDS hex net fully licences latest version 

Very confused as you have swapped out the actuator. But the OP says that the cam and crank sensor faults are the cause of the actuator fault. 

Have you replaced the cam/crank sensors? 

Also with the fault happening when its only running is it a signal fault from cam/crank sensors not getting back to the ecu.

How much detail does vcds give on the fault codes?

Edited by Mattymdm
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On 5/20/2020 at 6:49 PM, Mattymdm said:

Very confused as you have swapped out the actuator. But the OP says that the cam and crank sensor faults are the cause of the actuator fault. 

Have you replaced the cam/crank sensors? 

Also with the fault happening when its only running is it a signal fault from cam/crank sensors not getting back to the ecu.

How much detail does vcds give on the fault codes?

VCDS gives as much info as I have posted in the opening post.

I stated the actuator fault is causing the correlation fault this is based on the fact it comes up first and that it seems to be the consensus online on other models that it will cause these faults.

If it was the 12v it also wouldn't show on ignition or while the engine is running as a wiring fault as its a shared 12v connection direct from the fuse box, what I think I need to test to running the wires outside of the current loom straight to the ecu and see what happens.

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1 minute ago, edwrai said:

I stated the actuator fault is causing the correlation fault this is based on the fact it comes up first and that it seems to be the consensus online on other models that it will cause these faults.

If it was the 12v it also wouldn't show on ignition or while the engine is running as a wiring fault as its a shared 12v connection direct from the fuse box, what I think I need to test to running the wires outside of the current loom straight to the ecu and see what happens.

My fault for miss reading the post there

Running new wiring is the only way to go. keep us posted

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I don't think that it's a wiring fault. The fault doesn't show up till after the engine has been started. The ECU runs through a very thorough check of plausable sensor values, bus currents and open circuit type scenarios before moving on to normal running. If there were a wiring or sensor fault, it'd flag before the engine was started.

I have a gut feeling that it is timing related. But what exactly is slightly out, is the question... I wonder if a timing sensor is picking up interference from somewhere (really, a stab in the dark now!). Tried disconnecting the alternator? Dodgy (electrically noisy) fuel pump?

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23 hours ago, mk2 said:

I don't think that it's a wiring fault. The fault doesn't show up till after the engine has been started. The ECU runs through a very thorough check of plausable sensor values, bus currents and open circuit type scenarios before moving on to normal running. If there were a wiring or sensor fault, it'd flag before the engine was started.

I have a gut feeling that it is timing related. But what exactly is slightly out, is the question... I wonder if a timing sensor is picking up interference from somewhere (really, a stab in the dark now!). Tried disconnecting the alternator? Dodgy (electrically noisy) fuel pump?

Now this is interesting, this evening I have been playing with my hexnet and I have discovered if I reset the codes with the engine running, it does not seem to come back (will need to play with this more) however it turn off the engine then turn it back on the fault is there. So it seems, the act of starting the engine is causing this issue! I will test more tomorrow.

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1 minute ago, edwrai said:

Generally its fine, can be a bit kangrooy when cold.

mine has always been like that when cold (moreso with a goosed lower engine mount)

 

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Also I have discovered looking at group 91 is that the car uses the cam adjuster to move the timing to around 0 at startup, once warm and the cam adjuster is off this then sits between 3-4 ATDC most the time.

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@Rich do you have any ideas on this one. 
 

What I have noticed, is if I reset the car while running the codes doesn’t come back, but this also has the effect of it not altering the timing either I noticed the cam adjuster values not changing while the car was in use. If I restarted the vehicle the code returned but it also would start changing timing again

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Something ****ing with the voltage on starting.

Try a jump start to see if the code appears then.

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2 hours ago, Rich said:

Something ****ing with the voltage on starting.

Try a jump start to see if the code appears then.

I thought this too, however I think after clearing the fault the engine stops actively measuring the cam timing as it becomes static until it’s restarted I think this is more a characteristic of the ecu rather than a cause which is annoying 

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Ideally, you need to see what the ECU is seeing on a car without a problem, and then compare their results with your's. The tell tale to me is that once you've cleared any faults after it's been started, the ECU isn't trying to move the cam. Now, is that normal, or is it normal for it to move it? I don't know.

So, if the ECU usually moves the cam (without clearing the faults after starting) perhaps it moves it too far (or not enough)? Why?

But, if it doesn't usually move the cam, why is it moving it? Anyone reading this must think this is complete gibberish 🙄

I still have a hunch that somewhere the timing is out; the ECU is picking up the discrepancy and trying to correct it. Or a sensor is in the wrong fitting position, making it look like the timing is out. I don't think it's a wiring fault. I also don't think it's a mechanical fault.

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Just an afterthought- is the adjustment system a closed control loop? What I mean is, for example; when the ECU dials in say 3 degrees of advance, does it measure how much the actuator has moved and then tweak it a bit to get it exactly right? Or is it open loop where it dials in the 3 degrees then expects it to be there without checking where it is? I may have just answered my own question judging by your error messages.... (it's closed loop).

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56 minutes ago, mk2 said:

Ideally, you need to see what the ECU is seeing on a car without a problem, and then compare their results with your's. The tell tale to me is that once you've cleared any faults after it's been started, the ECU isn't trying to move the cam. Now, is that normal, or is it normal for it to move it? I don't know.

So, if the ECU usually moves the cam (without clearing the faults after starting) perhaps it moves it too far (or not enough)? Why?

But, if it doesn't usually move the cam, why is it moving it? Anyone reading this must think this is complete gibberish 🙄

I still have a hunch that somewhere the timing is out; the ECU is picking up the discrepancy and trying to correct it. Or a sensor is in the wrong fitting position, making it look like the timing is out. I don't think it's a wiring fault. I also don't think it's a mechanical fault.

Well do you know how it works, I wouldn't have thought there is much place for a fine adjustment as its done via oil pressure the actuator simply allows oil to pass through it when activated which then allows timing advance, I believe this actuator or so I have heard, doesn't do much apart from when the vehicle is cold this would also make sense from what I have seen. The timing changes as the car is revved without this actuator doing anything at all from what I have seen. Now if this is correct or not i'm not sure, however I have read someone else say this and I have never seen it activated while driving only ever on tickover?

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I've just read the guide... as a refresher... why??? I 'must' be bored.

Anyway, I think the culprit is the G40 sensor, or the plug or the cable/connection to it. I reckon the sensor is probably ok, but something happens when you crank it. Could be something shaking or loose? Could even be the crank sensor, but very unlikely.

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49 minutes ago, mk2 said:

I've just read the guide... as a refresher... why??? I 'must' be bored.

Anyway, I think the culprit is the G40 sensor, or the plug or the cable/connection to it. I reckon the sensor is probably ok, but something happens when you crank it. Could be something shaking or loose? Could even be the crank sensor, but very unlikely.

You know what i'm leaning towards the g40 or the g28 .. i'm going to check all the wiring on these can come back.

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17 hours ago, edwrai said:

You know what i'm leaning towards the g40 or the g28 .. i'm going to check all the wiring on these can come back.

So the wiring checks out fine on the cam sensor I haven't done the crank sensor yet however I think its fine as I haven't had any signs of an issue here, starts fine rev counter is fine etc. 

I disconnected the n205 today and drove it a bit, the correlation issue still showed up.

Now one thing that would really help, does anyone have VCDS or vagcam and can give me their readins from engine group 012 I want to check the tooth low to high from reading 3 and 4 on 012

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If you clear the faults, rev the engine to say 3000, then switch off for a second and then switch on again (so no cranking, but engine will restart), does that action of cycling it trigger the fault like when cranking?

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3 hours ago, mk2 said:

If you clear the faults, rev the engine to say 3000, then switch off for a second and then switch on again (so no cranking, but engine will restart), does that action of cycling it trigger the fault like when cranking?

Na its not the starter, took longer to come back when I disconnected the n205 but it did come back. What I really need is the values from engine 01 measuring block 012! this would help clear up a theory I have

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I don't have a GTI... but would post a screen shot of the numbers if i did. Am very curious to get to the bottom of this fault.

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