Jabo Posted November 10, 2004 Report Share Posted November 10, 2004 But how are you going to keep the engine heat away from the air as it goes to the throttle body?This is the problem, weather the filter is in front or at the back, the pipes have still got to go around the hot engine to the back of the bay.The simplest way is to hack your bonnet up and make an air scoop. Not only it will be ambiet temp at all times due to extremely short travel time (make as close to throttle as possible) but also would create an air ram jet effect at higher speeds. Additional benefit of cleaner air is a bonus. Natirally aspirated motors are easy, unless you ara adamant on keeping your bonnet stock style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />If you really want to fiddle with `re-routing` your air intake within engine bay use hi temp thermal insulation - it easily withstands engine temps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dare Posted November 11, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 Have you got any pics of yours Dubdub? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdwindustries Posted November 11, 2004 Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 bascially you can route cold air feed down to the front air intake pretty easily. Its a 60mm gap near enough through all the pipes and things. You do run the risk of sand/grit/rain getting sucked up as its very low. Moving the BMC to the 'front' of the engine isnt easy either. There is VERY little room. It could go where the battery should go but then the pipework is impossible. Gargoil was also someone who new a thing or two about engineering (he probably still does!!) and he moved it all over the place but could not get it any better than where the OEM air box is.As for 'look so good its original' you can get the engine cover on with a little work, so you wouldnt know it was fitted.Samco is fine for this sort of application. Cant remember who has the Ram feed for their venom (check readers rides) but he measured engine temps using thermometer and they never seemed to get excessive. Samco comes in black also.I think in this case Jabo is correct - the only sensible way of getting really cold air in as a bonnet hole. I have thought about all this quite a lot - and one thing that remains is the air VW suck in as standard (through the wing) may not be as much as a new air feed but it is cold and keeps the grit/flys/water out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabo Posted November 11, 2004 Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 I think in this case Jabo is correct -Praise the Lord! can't belive my peepers! Jabo's correct?I think I'll get drunk tonight style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":lol:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" /> style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":lol:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" /> :wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bossjohnc Posted November 11, 2004 Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 I think in this case Jabo is correct style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":lol:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" />Messing with the bonnet isn't an easy job to get right - I've not seen many (if any) bonnet vents which compliment the lines of the lupo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdwindustries Posted November 11, 2004 Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 there are none in my eyes.its a tricky car. i dont think its worth the effort tbh - if you really want big cold air then route down to the front bumper. If you want to make sure its heat resistant use heat shield - as per gargoil.. he has some pics on here somewhere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTi Si Posted November 11, 2004 Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 So keeping the BMC in the original position is the best option.Are there nay better filters out there compared to the BMC, but quieter?S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdwindustries Posted November 11, 2004 Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 not that i know of - having said that the BMC is pretty timid race filter. in theory there are hundreds that will fit and may be quieter but may not be! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LINCOLNSHIRESLUPOGTI Posted November 11, 2004 Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 I have a BMC and have refitted my engine cover so all looks std (remember I have an obsession with modding so that it still looks relatively std).Also think this.....the air is forced through the BMC in a cone / umbrella profile (read the box or look inside the carbon casing.). This speeds up the velocity of the air passing through the filter, but an increase in velocity results in a pressure decrease as you start to move towards a vacuum situation (ie: negative pressure). As the pressure drops the air temperature drops as well. Only by small amounts but every little helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabo Posted November 11, 2004 Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 Pressure drop in the situation you described does not change temp. I think you are mistaking higher thermal capacity of pressurized gas compared to `non-presurized` state.I think this cone thingie is a gimmick in large part since all it does is forces air through small area of filtering element at a higher speeds. Volumetric flow remains the same but that part of filtering element sufferrs from much higher loads that the rest and is more likely to fail rendering the whole thing useless.Higher air speed means nice roar and that's the point there imho.If you look at performance cars they mostly use flat panel elements... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdwindustries Posted November 11, 2004 Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 jabo....... think before you speak!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bossjohnc Posted November 11, 2004 Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 Reducing pressure in anything will cause it to cool - however reducing air pressure will actually mean that there's less air there - which would have a negative effect on combustion I beleive... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loopy Lupo Posted November 11, 2004 Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 i ain't no rocket scientist but in laymans terms this is how i see it. My first Loop had a powerflow stainless zorst, and bmc filter. it put out 141 bhp on the rollers when we had a get together in northampton - so good test bench on the day for standard cars too.as i see it the bmc gives a great sound and probably 1 or 2 horsies. that's enuff for me guys! :wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanGTI Posted November 11, 2004 Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 will be good if i can get the cover over the BMC...still convinced there is a better way to mount it tho, but need to have a good look at the engine bay to think where and how.it was paynas with the viper...those pics of his car were one of the things that convinced me to get a GTI. the samco thing makes sense with the temp but i just dont like the look of it in his bay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanGTI Posted November 11, 2004 Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 will be good if i can get the cover over the BMC...still convinced there is a better way to mount it tho, but need to have a good look at the engine bay to think where and how.it was paynas with the viper...those pics of his car were one of the things that convinced me to get a GTI. the samco thing makes sense with the temp but i just dont like the look of it in his bay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabo Posted November 12, 2004 Report Share Posted November 12, 2004 QUOTE(tdwindustries)jabo....... think before you speak!!it looks like performance cars do not use flat panel elements style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />I just saw Blumquist's (sp?) cutome made Ford based power house developing over 800bhp - flat panels all the way.Porshe 911 turboS or sth developing in excess of 800 bhp - flat panels only and bloke said that he tried them all and only flat panels gave them performance he needed - hence my conclusions.As for the thermodynamics.... pressure has nothing to do with temperature chaps. It's like being in a room with a table in it and two cubes laying on that table. One cube is made of copper and the other of plastic lets say. Question= which one is colder?Flow of gases and thermodynamics of a smelly air pump of an engine is quite simple. If what you are saying was true Diesel engines would be physically impossible to exist!I you are really desperate I can give you some links to basic thermodynamics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bossjohnc Posted November 12, 2004 Report Share Posted November 12, 2004 QUOTE(Jabo)As for the thermodynamics.... pressure has nothing to do with temperature chaps. It's like being in a room with a table in it and two cubes laying on that table. One cube is made of copper and the other of plastic lets say. Question= which one is colder? :? Pressure has a lot to do with temperature!!Decompression = Temperature DropCompression = Temperature RiseI'm not sure what your two cubes on the table has to do with pressure... (that sounds more like a conduction experiment to me) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTi Si Posted November 12, 2004 Report Share Posted November 12, 2004 Correct BossJohn (according to my Mechannical Engineering degree).But we are not talking high compression here so temp rise will be insignificant.Flat panel filters could be used as they keep the airflow laminar or becasue they might have a larger surface area.S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabo Posted November 12, 2004 Report Share Posted November 12, 2004 I'll be away till tuesday.... will get back to thgs one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryn Posted November 14, 2004 Report Share Posted November 14, 2004 My mate had a BMC on his Saxo VTS and didn't rate it. It sucked some water up and made a right mess of the engine. Later changed to a K & N as was much happier with it IIRC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigz™ Posted November 14, 2004 Report Share Posted November 14, 2004 You sure the car just didnt reach the 25'000 mile mark and started throughing engine parts out the exhaust system? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loopy Lupo Posted November 14, 2004 Report Share Posted November 14, 2004 QUOTE(Tigz)You sure the car just didnt reach the 25'000 mile mark and started throughing engine parts out the exhaust system?snigger! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryn Posted November 14, 2004 Report Share Posted November 14, 2004 QUOTE(Tigz)You sure the car just didnt reach the 25'000 mile mark and started throughing engine parts out the exhaust system?Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LINCOLNSHIRESLUPOGTI Posted November 15, 2004 Report Share Posted November 15, 2004 Cant see how the Saxo remark can make the BMC look bad.Surely that is down to the mounting point of the intake pipe. My BMC has been on for 8000miles and in some very heavy rain (flooded the throttle bodies on my mates corsa) yet my car suffered no problems. Think abit of careful positioning of the intake can prevent water ingress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdwindustries Posted November 15, 2004 Report Share Posted November 15, 2004 yes i cant see how REPLACING the air box directly would make water suddenly flood the engine bay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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