Crusoe Posted November 18, 2004 Report Share Posted November 18, 2004 you have to remember that the intercooler is cooling the air after it has been through the tutbo so it would be running anywhere up to 800deg C before the intercooler if the intercooler can get it down to around the ambient temperature it's doing a good job Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabo Posted November 18, 2004 Report Share Posted November 18, 2004 Hmm, it looks like I am missing sth here....If there's no phase change type or similar cooling unit present htre is no way of cooling anything below ambinet, is there ? or do you mean 2C above ambient? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bossjohnc Posted November 18, 2004 Report Share Posted November 18, 2004 Does any decompression occur after the intercooler? If so that will (or could) reduce the temperature to below ambient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusoe Posted November 18, 2004 Report Share Posted November 18, 2004 why i said 2 deg on the rolling road, think it would usually be higher, `10-12` deg over ambient is more normal. There is probably a cold air feed to keep the engine fomr overheating when it was on the rolling road. The rule of thumb is around 70% reduction in temperature if you take the turbo output in degrees kelvin though the bigger the intercooler the more likely to get it down to ambient befor eit reaches the engine intake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabo Posted November 18, 2004 Report Share Posted November 18, 2004 why i said 2 deg on the rolling road, think it would usually be higher, `10-12` deg over ambient is more normal.It looks like my contraption stands a chance of kicking some serious ass afterall style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" />. Even with 18psi max boost (is it really max stock setup?) it should be able too cool it around 10C min (I am hoping for 20C...).I also got a Ford Escort RS rad fan from `e-bay` and thinking about slapping it on stock intercooler.Where would be the best place to wire it to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusoe Posted November 18, 2004 Report Share Posted November 18, 2004 all depends on your turbo outlet temperature, petrols tend to boost a bit lower with exhaust gasses from the turbo around 700deg C, derv run a bit hotter at around 800 though how much cooling form your intercooler depends on the ambient more than anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTi Si Posted November 18, 2004 Report Share Posted November 18, 2004 Get Aquamist, far lower intake temps style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusoe Posted November 19, 2004 Report Share Posted November 19, 2004 water spray won't significantly improve the tempreature if you have a large front mounted intercooler, on cars like the scooby with a smaller top mounted intercooler the water spray has a much more pronounced effect and has the advantage of much less drag compared to the larger front mounted intercooler that would be needed to provide equivalent cooling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTi Si Posted November 19, 2004 Report Share Posted November 19, 2004 Indeed.Didn;t know Jabo had a FMIC style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad.gif" />S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabo Posted November 20, 2004 Report Share Posted November 20, 2004 QUOTE(TDi Si)Indeed.Didn;t know Jabo had a FMIC style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad.gif" />S :? Have I? Sadly I do not have one, it'd be quite a tight fit anyways...I do not think it is needed though, adding a fan on the stock IC would be more than sufficient to keep charge air temps at ambient.What I want to do is to drop charge temp below ambient style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":twisted:" border="0" alt="twisted.gif" /> BMC is the best car engine intake air filtration solutions company on the market (Ferrari F1 machines use custome made air filtration elements by BMC).The only problem with 1.4 TDi and BMC is that they do not make induction kits for this engine... style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad.gif" /> but they make direct replacement filtration elements sooo 8) I'd like to research ways of improving existing air delivery system (from what I managed to figure out `pre-filtration` air intake rigid plastic tubing is laughable as stock, it's bl00dy tiny!) but till next year I am totally skint.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTi Si Posted November 20, 2004 Report Share Posted November 20, 2004 I don't think I will be fitting a BMC, for the price the improvements seem small - apart from extra noise. And the car is loud as standard!Instead I am going to try fitting larger pipes.S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackrat Posted November 20, 2004 Report Share Posted November 20, 2004 the only way you gonna get close to dropping inlet charge below 0 or close to ,is going for `charge-cooler` with ice .. or a co2/n20 intercooler sprayer system, cant think of anything else , although ford made a truck with a aircon type set up that cooled the intake charge allowing you to have boost to overtake etc.so let me get this right , you wanna use two intercoolers ? chances are you will do more harm than good, unless you are resticted for space and can only put in two smaller intercoolers .. if the cooler is too big you will suffer from lag + responsebare in mind no intercooler is 100% efficiant, so you never going to cool to ambiant temp with an air to air coolerusing water injection is an easy way out to fix an engine that is incorrectly set up , if the engine is pinging or if detonation is occuring ... simple fix, stick some water in to cool it down , not the right way but so many tuners are doing this as its an easy process and also cost effictivenothing makes up for cubic displacement .. maybe just n2o ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabo Posted November 21, 2004 Report Share Posted November 21, 2004 Yep, good 'ol 'No replacement for displacement' style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" />No, I am not going to use two intercoolers as such. It's gunna be similar to `water-to`-air intercooler setup (no increased lag due to increased capacity since I am not going to increase capacity/volume of existing system) or to put it in a more puffed up way very high thermal energy extraction rate system/high energy density cooling. Phase change assy done by Ford is the ultimate wy of doing it but makes no sense for such a small motor...When I buy Sharan next year I'll think about it style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":P" border="0" alt="tongue.gif" />All that NoS does is to cool charge and increse Oxygen content of combustion air (dry system) and you have to refill it constantly. What if it was possible to get incresed oxygen content and very cool charge without NoS? ECU should increse fuel delivery to stay within `fuel-to`-air ratios giving more power without the risk of blowing up and misfiring - am I right here? (I want to reposition stock charge temp sensor and place it before 2nd stage charge cooler; btw, device is quite small, 120x120mm max and ~250mm long - heat dissipation subsytem is going to be remote.^^^^Ermm total thread hijacking ? :oops: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dare Posted December 2, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 2, 2004 Where did you guys get your BMC's from ? and how much did you pay? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arvid Posted December 3, 2004 Report Share Posted December 3, 2004 Just use a big intercooler, with NX `N-tercooler` spraying nitrous on the intercooler and use Aquamist water/methanol injection to inprove air density that enters the combustion chamber. This way it will be cool enough.As for air filters i still go for Apexi Powerfilters in a carbon or metal box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusoe Posted December 3, 2004 Report Share Posted December 3, 2004 disadvantage of a larger intercooler is more turbo lag though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabo Posted December 3, 2004 Report Share Posted December 3, 2004 agreed Crusoe, by just rerouting stock piping, ditching stock `air-to`-air inter and installing `water-to`-air one it is possible to gain 40 -60% pressure increase style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" /> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arvid Posted December 3, 2004 Report Share Posted December 3, 2004 a bigger intercooler doesn't always mean more turbo lag. The intercooler has to be calculated to be the right size and the flow rate it has also affects (positive or negative) turbolag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Lup Gti Posted January 2, 2005 Report Share Posted January 2, 2005 only other thing i can think of now is using something to cool the cold air feed......air cold air feed from the wing to cool the cold air feed for the filter!??Anyone ever thought about using an `air-con` unit to cool the intake air going into the inlet manifold?? Just a thought?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badger5 Posted January 2, 2005 Report Share Posted January 2, 2005 QUOTE(Jabo)Hmm, it looks like I am missing sth here....If there's no phase change type or similar cooling unit present htre is no way of cooling anything below ambinet, is there ? or do you mean 2C above ambient?Sub ambient by means of chargecooler force fed ice or chilled by Peltier coolers.. a la my wifes 1.8T lupo which runs my old chargecooler.For RR days and abuse it received ice into the washer bottle for good measure. Subambient change temps were achieved. Other cooling from Halo type systems can also get you cooler than ambient temps.the most effective I have seen however is NOS.. Boy does that cool as well as give you more 0xygen to burn. JBS ran this on their octavia and ran -8'C induction temp at the beginning of the RR run up to 0'C at the end.. Started at over 50'C and heatsoaked.. Amazing to see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabo Posted January 4, 2005 Report Share Posted January 4, 2005 Yeah, NoS is a phase change system after all, very simple but quite high maintenance (needs gas all the time).I want sth to be maintenance free with minimum or no moving parts.Refrigeration unit unit would be much better but more complicated and more expensive with roughly the same amout of cooling gained from the same power drain on cars alternator.I did some reading and thought about the whole thing a bit more and the best thisng to do on top of charge cooling would be to reduce volumetric capacity of charge cooling system.ELSA diagrams show wery well how looong is stoct 1.4TDi system. I think I should be able to reduce it's stock capacity by 75% improving turbo response (earlier 'turbo kick')badger5, have you got any pictures of your wifes 1.8T Peltier chargecooler you are willing to shre here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Lup Gti Posted January 20, 2005 Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 Bmc's are the way forward!! !Its ace!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt_arosa16v Posted January 20, 2005 Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 Has anyone gone from using a Pipercross kit in their Lupo/Arosa to a BMC. I may try this in the future but if any one has 'upgraded' like this before what are the differences? Worth the dosh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigz™ Posted January 20, 2005 Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 Bmc's are the way forward!! !Its ace!!^^^^^^^^^^^^I think thats what Ross has upgraded from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdwindustries Posted January 21, 2005 Report Share Posted January 21, 2005 no comparison in my opinion..... BMC rulez OK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.