Adamlarge Posted October 17, 2013 Report Share Posted October 17, 2013 I've posted recently about my lupo refusing to start or had a friend who's a mechanic helping me out trying to figure it out and up to now we've replaced a couple of bits we thought it could've been and it hasn't fixed it, on ignition it will start straight away but cut straight out even if I keep my foot on the throttle, we checked for a spark on most the plugs and it seemed there was a constant spark so we've originally crooked off the immobiliser and went about the ignition so changed the coil pack as it was all cracked and coroded were as the ht leads weren't to bad so cleaned them up and still had no effect I noticed there was no brake lights so changed the brake light switch they now work and cleaned the throttle body which has been unplugged aswell as the battery, no codes have been coming up on the code reader although we don't have vagcom it's more of a handheld universal reader(autel geniscan can obdii), I've just checked again for a spark and this time there is one for the first couple of seconds and then nothing which wasn't happening before so now I'm back to the immobiliser, does that sound although it could be the immobiliser and how would I go about testing and fixing it I have tried the spare key and that's doing the same thing although there's still no codes? Any help would be much appreciated as the mechanic can't help me at the minute as he's busy and I don't have much money to be sending into a garage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamlarge Posted October 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2013 Forgot to mention I have done a service on it replacing the oil, oil filter and plugs and it was only after the oil change that when I went to start it to cycle the new oil round that it wouldn't and I have reset the service light, at first I put a little too much oil in it was just over the dotted area on the dipstick by a 2-3 mm which I drained out some of the oil and it's now at about 1 third of the way into the dotted area, I did try to start it with too much in before realising, and te new plugs have a fair bit of black crap all over them although 2 and 4 are clean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defcon5 Posted October 17, 2013 Report Share Posted October 17, 2013 Sorry I can't be arsed to read all that, but if it starts fine and then cuts out then yes, it sounds like there is an immobiliser issue.Try starting it with the spare/emergency key Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamlarge Posted October 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2013 Yeah it was a but of an essay sport about that haha I've tried the spare, still won't work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeoffD Posted October 19, 2013 Report Share Posted October 19, 2013 I've had this problem, exactly the same, but i'd just changed the wiring loom in a lupo. the problem I had was related to the ring which goes round the ignition keyhole (the black bit) there's a wire which goes into the dash panel and this plugs into a black box which appears to be the immobiliser unit (I may be wrong here) but I swapped all this out and it started again. or was it just my lucky day? thought i'd mention it. you could always leave the battery off overnight, stupid as it sounds it often cures coding issues. good luck!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeoffD Posted October 19, 2013 Report Share Posted October 19, 2013 the more thought I give this i'd definitely be looking at a coding issue between key and the immobiliser. I think theres a simple way to sort it out but off the top of my head I can't think of it. your mechanic mate not know anyone with a good interrogating machine? like snap on or such or even someone local with vagcom? who doesn't want a kidney off you before he looks at it!!?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamlarge Posted November 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 sorry for the late reply i havent been on for a while, the mechanic i know said its not immobilser issues because it wouldnt start at all. although everything ive heard otherwise says the engine starts and cuts out straight away on vw's, i dont want to go against his word though because i know he is a really good mechanic, served the trade 22 years so far, ive just been changing the bits and testing them as he says to but he hasnt got chance to come and have a proper look at it yet, i personally think its either my throttle body because ive had it off to clean needs realigning but he said the ecu will automatically adjust itself according to how wlls the cars running to ensure it does run well as with every other component, but the problem i see with that is the throttles out of line in the first place meaning i cant get it started for it to realign itself.i think whats happening is the tb isnt allowing enough air in so i think its starting off the air which is already in the manifold and then is being starved after a second because theres no more air getting in.although i did suspect the key reader on the barrel which if the mechanic is wrong is also a good call, im having trouble finding somebody in stockport with vagcom id prefer to avoid a garage doing it theyd charge loads and i know it doent take much to realign the tb its just a few clicks after plugging it into the car and they charge a fortune for it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamlarge Posted November 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 and now thinking about it i have a constant spark and i have fuel getting to the rail, i havent been able to test the injectors but the spark plugs have fuel on so they must be working so i think that kind of rules out the immobilser, this car is driving me mad now not being able to figure out what the problem is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeoffD Posted November 1, 2013 Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 looks like youre going to have to bite the bullet on this one and get vagcom on the job. there are issues that you cant get to without it and you could spend a fortune trying things just to find it. I have 40 yrs in the trade , but you learn new stuff every day, I've been considering buying vagcom myself. but its expensive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamlarge Posted November 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 Yeah I might have to the mechanic is going to come and have a proper look at it on Sunday I think he's been too busy recently so hasn't had chance he recons he will get it going but I do still think it's the throttle body needs realigning but he assures me it's not that an it will realign itself but I can't put a valid argument to him when he is the mechanic at the end of the day and he does know his stuff he's worked with proper racing teams, il wait and see what his outcome with it is and go from there, il make sure to let people know of the outcome and what the problem was when It's fixed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defcon5 Posted November 1, 2013 Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 mechanic i know said its not immobilser issues because it wouldnt start at all.He is wrong 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeoffD Posted November 2, 2013 Report Share Posted November 2, 2013 I didn't want to be that blunt . but I tend to agree with defcon5. you know you can spend a long time looking at the same thing and somebody new comes along and says "oh, it's that!" gets on my nerves, but i'm always prepared to be told something new. when you find out what it is do let us know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skezza Posted November 4, 2013 Report Share Posted November 4, 2013 +1 With Geoff and Defcon. I have a valet key and if you start the car with it, the car switches on, and cuts out about 2 seconds later. It was exactly the same on my previous car as well, which wasn't a VW.Your mechanic is wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamlarge Posted November 7, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2013 i think because he has always worked on any car that came into the garage he might not have come across many vw's with an immobiliser problem so is just comparing it to other cars which wouldnt start at all, waiting for vag com to arrive then hes coming to hook it up to that and run some proper tests, reallign my tb and some other bits, so far weve only had a code reader that will tell you the codes and erase them and no programming, and other than that only been able to do manual checks of things, hopefully have it sorted soon il let everybody know whats going on, like i said i dont want to argue with him from in inexperienced point of view on it because he might refuse to help me then so il let him do what he wants to do with it, wel get there eventually Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamlarge Posted December 6, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2013 still no luck with it, been waiting on the mechanic, he has been to have a look at it properly and is now getting vagcom but hes had trouble getting it working on his laptop, hes had the ecu open because i noticed after taking the scuttle off that the connections had water on and he said it did have a very slight water mark but its cleaned up alright and might not be a problem, he also thinks the tb might need realligning which i suggested at the begginning because ive had it off and cleaned it, he reconed i wouldnt need to reallign it at first because he has a point that it would adapt itsel which it would when its runningf, but the problem i see with that, it wont have chance to adapt if it cant even start, on the plus side ive bought it some rota flashbacks and it looks so much better which has cheered me up about it haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigplum Posted December 6, 2013 Report Share Posted December 6, 2013 (edited) Definitely immo problems , are you sure both keys worked previously ?If it starts and runs for two seconds then cuts out , the immo is doing its job, ( very common sign on newer cars ) So you may have a key reading issue ,the coil round the steering lock needs checking as well as the black box it connects to.(If both keys used to work its unlikely they have both lost their code)If your chap has bought a cheapy vagcom lead off eBay , they are crap at connecting, the proper lead works fine.But bear in mind it can only read and clear the immo faults , pretty sure it cannot be used for recoding keys.To recode I think you need software called Vagtacho. Probably best left to a Autolocksmith if you need to go down that route.So get the codes read, I would be very worried that your chap has now opened the ecu , he really sounds out of his depth Edited December 6, 2013 by Bigplum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy4976 Posted December 21, 2013 Report Share Posted December 21, 2013 Hi M8, I too have the same problem with the spare key of my 2002 Lupo gti, slightly different the original keys works fine, the spare key starts the car then cuts out after about 2 secs, then when you try again to start it, just turns over, when I re-pair the key by putting the ignition on with the faulty key, then puting the working key in the door lock and locking the car, then reaching in and pressing the unlock button on the faulty key, by doing this the key works fine, when then not used for say 24 hrs it looses the code again, and takes you back to square one, I have been told could be the battery in the remote, so ordered a new one, awaiting delivery, someone also told me if you have a faulty car battery this can effect the coding, don't see how really when my original key works fine, interested to see how you get on with yours, should a brand new key fob battery cure mine, I will post results either way Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeoffD Posted December 22, 2013 Report Share Posted December 22, 2013 if you hold the original working key near the lock and use the key that doesn't work to start the car and it works then the problem is your key, not the immobiliser. it may need recoding. geoff 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy4976 Posted December 22, 2013 Report Share Posted December 22, 2013 Hi Geoff, Put the new battery in the duff key, tried re-pairing it, didn't work, tried what you said above, didn't work. Gave up and drove home ( 20 minute drive) parked in the drive, out of curiosity, tried the key again, with the working Key in my pocket, started 1st time... No doubt if I go out and try now using the same key it will start and cut out, I just don't get it. You think the key may need re-coding, I take it only VW can do this ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeoffD Posted December 25, 2013 Report Share Posted December 25, 2013 I think you can recode with vagcom lite, but you may need to register to do it, check on the ross-tech site. I've never done this myself, but I was having a look the other day and I think you can. vcl is considerably cheaper than the full monty vc but obviously its limited. worth a look anyway. geoff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeoffD Posted December 25, 2013 Report Share Posted December 25, 2013 have you checked all the connections down to your black box and of course any relevant fuses, there may be more than one. don't just accept that things are connected, give them a good wiggle to make sure. geoff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy4976 Posted December 26, 2013 Report Share Posted December 26, 2013 Hi Geoff Appreciate the advice, will have a look after the festive period, cars coming off the road at the end of this month. and getting garaged until summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted December 26, 2013 Report Share Posted December 26, 2013 I've had this probem loads of times.Majority of the time it can be fixed using the spare key.Minority of the time I de-immobilise the ecu.Once, I found that even though all was coded it wouldn't work, by random chance I discovered that a multimeter set on continuity, one side in the earth for the reader (the ring around the ignition, three pin plug), the other side earthed provided enough resistance to compensate for a crappy earth in the car which took me a good six months to track down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy4976 Posted December 27, 2013 Report Share Posted December 27, 2013 I think the car battery is in the road out as well, not sure if this could be something to do with the fault with the key also, took the car out today tried to use the spare key, started 1st time then cut out,and would not restart, so put in my everyday key, and off I went , 20 minute journey, when I arrived at my destination, put the faulty key in the ignition and it started 1st time... Confused.com.... Could it be something to do with the car battery itself, as just fitted a new battery the faulty keyfob.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted December 27, 2013 Report Share Posted December 27, 2013 You've probably knocked the chip.Just open it up and glue it back in place, take care as it might fall out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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