Xenon Conversion Kits

[andys101]

Not wanting to rain on anyone's parade - but as far as i know unless your car has HID's fitted from the factory you cant legally fit them and although mr plod doesnt know his arse from his elbow VOSA does.

The reason you need AUTOMATIC SELF ADJUSTING HEADLAMPS is so you don't blind anyone

a WASHER SYSTEM is because any dirt on your headlamp will create a hot spot and render your headlamps useless

HEADLAMPS APPROVED FOR HID'S is if they were not designed for them ITS A GOOD REASON TO NOT FIT THEM.

So just to clarify IF YOUR CAR WASNT FITTED WITH THEM FROM THE FACTORY IT IS ILLEAGLE TO RETRO FIT THEM.

stand back and wait for the backlash

Edited October 4, 2008 by andys101

[Little Man]

although mr plod doesnt know his arse from his elbow VOSA does

Hmmm, obviously not eh? As many of our customers cars have been through an MOT with these "ILLEAGLE" kits fitted,including several of my own. And correct me if I am wrong but VOSA are the people who set the standards for MOTs?

Maybe if you are that concerned you should start a new thread that is specifically aimed at the legalities of fitting after market HIDs, that way people can exchange the many different parts of the law that contradict each other like I have seen over and over again in different threads. For sale threads are not the place to do it and I'm sure if you took the time to read the rules of the site you would already know this.

If all else fails it will at least bump your post count up.

[andys101]

Hmmm, obviously not eh? As many of our customers cars have been through an MOT with these "ILLEAGLE" kits fitted,including several of my own. And correct me if I am wrong but VOSA are the people who set the standards for MOTs?

No VOSA doesnt set the standards for the MOT, current legislation does and the MOT is a BASIC test.

The headlamp test consists of "is it fitted, does it work, is it a matched pair, is the beam pattern correct.

And rules are to be broken or these kits wouldnt be available??

[Little Man]

In that case should I stick you down for a pair?

[andys101]

For Information I have high lighted certain pertinent points

In the Department's view it is not legal to sell or use after market HID lighting kits, for converting conventional Halogen headlamps to HID Xenon. If a customer wants to convert his vehicle to Xenon HID he must purchase completely new Xenon HID headlamps. The reason for this is that the existing lens and reflector are designed around a Halogen filament bulb, working to very precise tolerances. If one places a HID "burner" (bulb) in the headlamp, the beam pattern will not be correct, there will be glare in some places and not enough light in other places within the beam pattern.

The following is the legal rationale:

The Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations 1989 regulate the situation in the UK.

Under these Regulations, HID/Gas Discharge/Xenon headlamps are not mentioned and therefore they are not permitted according to the strict letter of the law.

However new vehicles have HID headlamps. This is because they comply to European type approval Regulations. The UK cannot refuse to register a vehicle with a European type approval. These are to ECE Regulation 98 (for the HID headlamps which are tested on a rig in a laboratory) and ECE Regulation 48 (Lighting Installation on the vehicle).

For the after market, a used vehicle cannot obtain type approval because it is only applicable for new vehicles. However we feel that saying "HID is banned in the after market" would not be reasonable. Instead we should make analogies with new vehicles. It would be reasonable to require HID in the after market to meet the same safety standards as on new vehicles. The same level of safety should apply.

Therefore a HID headlamp unit sold in the after market should:

1. be type approved to ECE Regulation 98 as a component.

2. when fitted to the vehicle should enable ECE Regulation 48 to be complied with (although no government inspection will take place).

3. Comply with RVLR as far as "use" is concerned.

In practice this means:

1. The headlamp unit (outer lens, reflector, bulb) shall be type approved to ECE 98 and be "e-marked" to demonstrate this. That can only be done by the headlamp supplier - Hella, Valeo etc. who must test the headlamp in an independent laboratory.

2. Once fitted to the vehicle it must have headlamp cleaning and self-levelling (which can be for the headlamp or can be in the vehicle suspension - some expensive estate cars have "self-levelling suspension" and that is adequate). Also the dipped beam must stay on with the main beam.

3. The headlamp must be maintained in good working order, kept clean, and aligned/adjusted correctly like any other headlamp.

Under the Road Traffic Act 1988 it is an offence to supply, fit or use vehicle parts which are not legal.

In summary it is not permitted to convert an existing halogen headlamp unit for use with HID bulbs. The entire headlamp unit must be replaced with one designed and approved for use with HID bulbs and it must be installed in accordance with the rules stated above.

If you require any further information regarding the regulations covered by this fact sheet, please contact the DfT at the address below:

Transport Technology and Standards 6

Department for Transport

Zone 2/04

Great Minster House

76 Marsham Street

London

SW1P 4DR

Telephone: 020 7944 2078

Fax: 020 7944 2196

Email: TTS.enquiries@dft.gsi.gov.uk

[andys101]

I would love a pair - however as a Vehicle Examiner for VOSA it would be a bit hypocritical of me to fit them.

But thanks for the offer......

Edited October 4, 2008 by andys101

[Little Man]

Thanks for the information andy, and I wish you the best of luck on informing the whole of the UK about the legalities about motoring. I wish I loved my job as much as you do... I think its some what special.

[Defcon5]

Thanks for the information andy, and I wish you the best of luck on informing the whole of the UK about the legalities about motoring. I wish I loved my job as much as you do... I think its some what special.

Kudos to you for making money on selling these kits, and however good quality they may be, it doesnt change the fact they are illegal to fit to an inappropriate vehicle. Dont see the need for the personal comments.

Personally I dislike morons who ride round with their foglights on constantly, I may die a little inside if someone makes a HID foglamp!

[CasperGTI]

Wouldnt you get a bit miffed if someone who had just signed up came on your thread and basically slagged you off on the things your trying to sell? - Its what this forum definatly dont need, are we turning in to PH?

German Plates are illegal on the road too, but you dont see people stopping selling them because they are now do you?

Counterfeit clothes and watches are also illegal, but you still see them being sold all over the place.

Andys101 - I thought HID bulbs run cold and dont generate any heat like halogens. Halogens get warm and the front glass heats up which dries out any dirt on the glass and with airflow over the light its meant to blow off. HID's need a washer because they dont get warm and dirt on the lens refracts the light in a different direction?

John

[andys101]

John, I'm not slagging you or your product off.

I'm trying to educate you and anyone else who reads this post. I have not been personal in anyway. I am giving information so that an informed choice can be made.

Anyone who had purchased a HID kit in ignorance of the law would be a little put out to find criminal proceedings against them from an over zealous crown employee. Ignorance is not a defence in court.

Below is an extract from the terms and conditions of this site.

Discouraged Behaviour

* Club Lupo discourages the use of “text speak” although forum abbreviations are acceptable.

* Please be aware that many members view this site from computers which may be monitored -

Club Lupo requests that members be conscious of this and mark any questionable threads clearly in the title as being “Not Safe for Work” (NSFW).

* Club Lupo discourages behaviour that is dangerous or illegal whether perceived or actual. This includes (but is not limited to) the advertisement of illegal “cruises” and the condoning of other illegal or dangerous behaviour.

Yes I do love my job, I am working to make the roads safer for everyone. Currently I am an SVA Officer and you wouldn't judge me if you had seen some of the truly horrific vehicles that people build and import.

[Silver!]

Good discussion with some sound advice, so lets keep it on topic!

Halfords sell 100w bulbs which are clearly marked "not for road use". I used to regularly buy them for my MK3 Polo's, but to be honest the reflectors and lenses must've been the problem as the 100w bulbs didn't make that much difference.

I've been blinded a few times by either badly adjusted or non-road use HIDs.

R

[nfbr]

This topic is hilarious.

Yes there are far too many people out there with Badly fitted Xenon kits, or Cheep as chips £30 xenon kits from ebay that are causing problems blinding people etc...

However - If blinding people with Xenons is such a problem, Then 4x4 vehicles with xenon lights should be taken off the road and be Down-specced to have Halogen headlights.

I have been Blinded more times by people in Range rovers etc when they are behind me than I have been by people with badly fitted or cheep xenon kits either behind me or coming towards me.

Edited October 5, 2008 by nfbr

[CasperGTI]

It is quite funny

Andy its not my product, so dont worry ive not taken any offence at all, this is a forum afterall and there are plenty of keyboard warriors about, I was just adding my 2p worth as to why you need washers with hid and xenons, and personally i dont need a set as i have a GTi.

It seems the lower the car is, the more you get blinded. Theres quite a few rangerovers around where i live. Untill the lupo came off the road i used to drive about with my rear view mirror tinted, it does your head in when your getting blinded every time you look in the mirror.

I have noticed that there arent as many old cars as there used to be on the road. Mabe its me, but i think an MOT has become harder to pass. Personally thats a good thing.

John

Edited October 5, 2008 by CasperGTI

[andys101]

I have noticed that there aren't as many old cars as there used to be on the road. Maybe its me, but i think an MOT has become harder to pass. Personally thats a good thing.

John

If only that were true

I was a car tester for 7 years before I joined VOSA and I thought the standards were not high enough then, when I joined VOSA and started testing trucks and coaches the minimum standard is FRIGHTENINGLY LOW for example you can have 10mm of lateral play on a king pin before it fails. 9.5mm of movement on both king pins on a truck weighing 42000kg travelling at 56mph is OK???? I think not. Don't even get me started on the amount of foreign trucks on our roads. Not even 1% of the trucks coming into this country get checked at the docks.

Any way rant over.

I like this forum, there is a lot of usefull information on here and the banter seems ok too.

[Gazza]

If only that were true

I was a car tester for 7 years before I joined VOSA and I thought the standards were not high enough then, when I joined VOSA and started testing trucks and coaches the minimum standard is FRIGHTENINGLY LOW for example you can have 10mm of lateral play on a king pin before it fails. 9.5mm of movement on both king pins on a truck weighing 42000kg travelling at 56mph is OK???? I think not. Don't even get me started on the amount of foreign trucks on our roads. Not even 1% of the trucks coming into this country get checked at the docks.

Any way rant over.

I like this forum, there is a lot of usefull information on here and the banter seems ok too.

Keep up the good work mate!

[Tigz™]

Hmmm, obviously not eh? As many of our customers cars have been through an MOT with these "ILLEAGLE" kits fitted,including several of my own. And correct me if I am wrong but VOSA are the people who set the standards for MOTs?

It may be an idea to check an MOT check sheet

At no point does it request the tester to check the type of bulb fitted.

Thats the Polices job.

[Tigz™]

I would love a pair - however as a Vehicle Examiner for VOSA it would be a bit hypocritical of me to fit them.

Then Im supprised by your comment.

Can you please show me where on your test sheet it asks you to check for type of headlamp bulb fitted?

[Tigz™]

the minimum standard is FRIGHTENINGLY LOW for example you can have 10mm of lateral play on a king pin before it fails. 9.5mm of movement on both king pins on a truck weighing 42000kg travelling at 56mph is OK???? I think not.

I work for Pullman Fleet Services, we wouldn't allow a truck to run around with anywhere near 9.5mm of movement but.

Extensive tests have been carried out, and on bushed king pins, even after removing the bushes, it made no effect to the operation of the hub.

Thats the reason why the fail rate is so low.

[andys101]

Then Im supprised by your comment.

Can you please show me where on your test sheet it asks you to check for type of headlamp bulb fitted?

Because its illegal to sell them for road use and to fit them for road use.

And just because you don't think you you will get caught is not a reason to fit them.

I could steal your car take it to a garage then strip it for parts and I don't think I would get caught - I know its illegal but I'm not going to get caught so does that make it right??

Just because you can do something doesnt mean you should

"its not going to harm anyone" isn't reason either!

[dash]

Kudos to you for making money on selling these kits, and however good quality they may be, it doesnt change the fact they are illegal to fit to an inappropriate vehicle. Dont see the need for the personal comments.

Personally I dislike morons who ride round with their foglights on constantly, I may die a little inside if someone makes a HID foglamp!

I died a little inside after reading this thread

andys101, where you bullied at school by any chance because you should have been, my god man, get a life.

i think you should go in to a pub on a friday night and tell everyone about the liver damage they're doing and preaching about the dangers or cheap vodka

at the end of the day, if they are cheap, they will break or break something and then you've learnt your lesson for buying cheap ****.

if you want it to work properly buy oem.

[Silver!]

Quote from here: http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roadsafety/drs/hidheadlamps

Fact sheet: Aftermarket HID headlamps

December 2006

In the Department's view it is not legal to sell or use after market HID lighting kits, for converting conventional Halogen headlamps to HID Xenon. If a customer wants to convert his vehicle to Xenon HID he must purchase completely new Xenon HID headlamps. The reason for this is that the existing lens and reflector are designed around a Halogen filament bulb, working to very precise tolerances. If one places a HID "burner" (bulb) in the headlamp, the beam pattern will not be correct, there will be glare in some places and not enough light in other places within the beam pattern.

The following is the legal rationale:

The Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations 1989 regulate the situation in the UK.

Under these Regulations, HID/Gas Discharge/Xenon headlamps are not mentioned and therefore they are not permitted according to the strict letter of the law.

However new vehicles have HID headlamps. This is because they comply to European type approval Regulations. The UK cannot refuse to register a vehicle with a European type approval. These are to ECE Regulation 98 (for the HID headlamps which are tested on a rig in a laboratory) and ECE Regulation 48 (Lighting Installation on the vehicle).

For the after market, a used vehicle cannot obtain type approval because it is only applicable for new vehicles. However we feel that saying "HID is banned in the after market" would not be reasonable. Instead we should make analogies with new vehicles. It would be reasonable to require HID in the after market to meet the same safety standards as on new vehicles. The same level of safety should apply.

Therefore a HID headlamp unit sold in the after market should:

1. be type approved to ECE Regulation 98 as a component.

2. when fitted to the vehicle should enable ECE Regulation 48 to be complied with (although no government inspection will take place).

3. Comply with RVLR as far as "use" is concerned.

In practice this means:

1. The headlamp unit (outer lens, reflector, bulb) shall be type approved to ECE 98 and be "e-marked" to demonstrate this. That can only be done by the headlamp supplier - Hella, Valeo etc. who must test the headlamp in an independent laboratory.

2. Once fitted to the vehicle it must have headlamp cleaning and self-levelling (which can be for the headlamp or can be in the vehicle suspension - some expensive estate cars have "self-levelling suspension" and that is adequate). Also the dipped beam must stay on with the main beam.

3. The headlamp must be maintained in good working order, kept clean, and aligned/adjusted correctly like any other headlamp.

Under the Road Traffic Act 1988 it is an offence to supply, fit or use vehicle parts which are not legal.

In summary it is not permitted to convert an existing halogen headlamp unit for use with HID bulbs. The entire headlamp unit must be replaced with one designed and approved for use with HID bulbs and it must be installed in accordance with the rules stated above.

If you require any further information regarding the regulations covered by this fact sheet, please contact the DfT at the address below:

Transport Technology and Standards 6

Department for Transport

Zone 2/04

Great Minster House

76 Marsham Street

London

SW1P 4DR

Telephone: 020 7944 2078

Fax: 020 7944 2196

Email: TTS.enquiries@dft.gsi.gov.uk

[bossjohnc]

Nice find

[Tigz™]

Ah thats good news, so fitting GTI lamps and washers is completely legal.

[Tigz™]

Because its illegal to sell them for road use and to fit them for road use.

My point is its the Police who must police this, it is not a MOT test which will pick up on it, and no tester should fail a car for having a HID kit fitted.

I agree with you on the principles, I'm completly against HID bulb kits.

[electricpanda]

Kinda abit OT, do VW still sell the gti lights? Do they swap straight over?