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Changing gear selector seal... and found this

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Thought that while I had the car on blocks, I'd check all the other stuff, and might as well replace the gear selector rod seal. Our Lupo gearboxes have a well known leak in this position, and changing the seal is easy. You need to look after them gearboxes- they are known to be delicate touchy creatures.....

Drained the fluid and measured how much came out- A bit over 2L which isn't too bad over 12 years. 1L down. They do like about 3L from what I've read. So time to get the gunge out along with all the metal filings. the oil came out looking mostly quite clear- a bit runnier than I'd like but with a definite yellow brassy metallic sheen to it. I hope thats not phosphor bronze particles suspended in the oil.

So I popped off the rod end and then noticed that the ball joint seal had split. Uh oh. Need a new seal.

See pic.

22ccnq.jpg

jj0nlc.jpg

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Personally I'd recommend that everyone checks this little thing. It's so minor but by having a sloppy selector means you could do damage to the synchro cones every time you change gear. Not to mention the selector fork ends. It's a neat little system used- with that tiny little rubber ball in the middle of the ball joint. Fortunately nothing else worn, just the seal had gone.

Anyone know how much they are from stealers (item 67)?

I might also change item 54 (x2) if they are not too expensive.

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The selector fork bushings will be wearing away internally.

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The selector fork bushings will be wearing away internally.

I know! Please don't remind me.... Arrggghhhh! :surprised:

Actually, the box shifts really well. No whine, no crunching, no stiffness. I s'pose it's only done 60k, so not that much stress, and it's a gutless SDI, so it should last.

Yesterday I spoke to a friend who specialises in gearboxes.... He said "Got a new Lupo huh? You'll be needing some new bearings soon...". My response "I know, I know." Big sigh. "I'll wait till it get's noisy andthen pull it out for you to have a play with..."

I think every Lupo box fails within 120k.

He suggested I put some extra thick AP-5 (I think?) box oil in. I know there has been lots of discussion about fluids and corrosion of yellow metals, but that's all nonsense unless moisture gets in the oil. Can't beat thick sticky tractor diff oil!

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Most boxes whine because nobody addresses the fluid loss through the selector seal.

You should be fine.

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Most boxes whine because nobody addresses the fluid loss through the selector seal.

You should be fine.

:clap: I don't believe that for one second. Every single Lupo gearbox dies... At least you made me smile! :yes:

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All VW gearboxes are crap if I had to be honest.

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All VW gearboxes are crap if I had to be honest.

You are so right! From about 1990 onwards. The older stuff is good.

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if you're really old school, how many mk1 gti boxes did you replace with maestro crap ?

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No idea if this is true but a good mate of mine who rebuilds VW boxes reckons switching from a 75w90 oil to a high quality synthetic 80w90 oil is a good move.

Claims none of his have failed since switching to 80w90.

I don't like the idea of heavy changes in the cold mind.

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I've been reading up on gear oils... Apparently, the incredibly tiny contact area between two teeth can generate localised hot spots where the instantaneous temperatures can exceed 1000c. With that in mind, there are additives in gear oils which somehow turn into a liquid metallic substance which actually behaves like a lube. It takes those high temps to metallise the additives. Apparently, the oil simply vapourises over 600c potentially exposing metal to metal. It's the additives that take over for the localised hot spot lubrication. All clever stuff this gear oil. And depending if you use angle bevel, hypoid bevel or hyperboloid bevel gear oils, the metalising additives are quite different.... So there is the viscosity (like 80/90 or 70/80), there are the additives (GL-4 or GL-5) and there are the base lubricants which can be a mineral or synthetic oil. I still think that the thicker the lube, the better properties it'll have to fight friction. Just like your mate says Skezza- use a synthetic 80w90. I think he's right. The new oil I have for my box is the same viscosity (80w90) and it's GL5 or something- super, extra, extreme heavy duty. As used in tractor diffs. I have no idea what the shifting will be like when it's cold- that thick oil needs to get squeezed out of the way before the synchromesh can engage, to select a cog.

I'll phone the local VW dealer in the morning for a price and ETA on that seal. I've found someone in Holland who has stock for about 5 euros. But then I'd need to wait and pay airfright. I want to see how well the EGR changes work this weekend if poss.

i wonder if there is a complete gear stick linkage overhaul kit available.......

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if you're really old school, how many mk1 gti boxes did you replace with maestro crap ?

I have fond memories of the 020.... A great gearbox! Heavy though. I learned lots when I was a baby doing them.

And isn't it wierd that the bellhousing pattern is still the same today for modern 4 cyl engines....?!?! Useful for conversions though!

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I'm sure there is someone undercover making sure that all these things stay the same for a reason.

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Price for the bellows from VW (6N0 711 167 A) is £5.04 inc vat

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I've been reading up on gear oils... Apparently, the incredibly tiny contact area between two teeth can generate localised hot spots where the instantaneous temperatures can exceed 1000c. With that in mind, there are additives in gear oils which somehow turn into a liquid metallic substance which actually behaves like a lube. It takes those high temps to metallise the additives. Apparently, the oil simply vapourises over 600c potentially exposing metal to metal. It's the additives that take over for the localised hot spot lubrication. All clever stuff this gear oil. And depending if you use angle bevel, hypoid bevel or hyperboloid bevel gear oils, the metalising additives are quite different.... So there is the viscosity (like 80/90 or 70/80), there are the additives (GL-4 or GL-5) and there are the base lubricants which can be a mineral or synthetic oil. I still think that the thicker the lube, the better properties it'll have to fight friction. Just like your mate says Skezza- use a synthetic 80w90. I think he's right. The new oil I have for my box is the same viscosity (80w90) and it's GL5 or something- super, extra, extreme heavy duty. As used in tractor diffs. I have no idea what the shifting will be like when it's cold- that thick oil needs to get squeezed out of the way before the synchromesh can engage, to select a cog.

I'll phone the local VW dealer in the morning for a price and ETA on that seal. I've found someone in Holland who has stock for about 5 euros. But then I'd need to wait and pay airfright. I want to see how well the EGR changes work this weekend if poss.

i wonder if there is a complete gear stick linkage overhaul kit available.......

So you're going to use 80w90?

I'm tempted have a pop myself at that.

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Thanks for that Lupogtiboy. I'll get on to VW and order it today. I wish I had access to your systems :)

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Thanks for that Lupogtiboy. I'll get on to VW and order it today. I wish I had access to your systems :)

Don't forget there's a drain plug and a fill plug for your gbox mate. Fill up to the fill plug ;)

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Don't forget there's a drain plug and a fill plug for your gbox mate. Fill up to the fill plug ;)

You won't believe this... how stupid am I...

I drained the oil, and then thought where the hell is the fill plug. Couldn't find it anywhere from looking below the car.

So thought- it must be like an 01M (last unit I worked on a few weeks back). You fill through the speedo sensor hole up to the line on the plastic gear shaft.

So I pulled out the sensor and sensor flange ready to go. Dropped something on the ground, looked up and spotted the filler plug. It's on the front side of the box! D'oh! All back in again for nothing. Do I feed stupid? Very.

I also inserted a small high power rare earth magnet in the hole in the middle of the drain plug. I can't believe that there's no magnet in the gearbox to collect all the metal filings (or is there?).

Rubber thing ordered- will arrive at local stealer in the morning, so I should be able to have everything back together again by Sunday PM (weather permitting).

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How nasty is your oil? I'm thinking I need to do this before the new year.

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How nasty is your oil? I'm thinking I need to do this before the new year.

Not good. Should have been done years ago.

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Not good. Should have been done years ago.

Used 80/90 then?

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Thanks for that Lupogtiboy. I'll get on to VW and order it today. I wish I had access to your systems :)

You wouldn't if you used it day in, day out.......

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