mysterylemon Posted January 1, 2013 Report Share Posted January 1, 2013 (edited) Hi,Got an intermittent starting issue with my 1.4 16v Lupo.95% of the time it starts perfect on the turn of the key. It runs and drives perfectly with no other issues. the 5% of the time that it wont start on the key, it just turns over without even trying to start. You could sit there until the battery runs out with the engine spinning. It just wont start.At first, I would take the key out and put it back in. This would usually solve the problem but sometimes would take 5 or so attempts for it to fire as normal and then it would litterally start perfectly on the key after not firing for 5 attempts. This lead me to think it may be an immobiliser issue but I have found that when it wont start, if you pump the throttle, it does eventually start (after about 10 seconds of pumping). It then idles erratically for around 10 seconds and then settles into a perfect idle and drives perfectly too.It's totally random. Can't work out any sort of pattern or even guess at when it will do it... It can do it first thing in the morning from cold or after a long run when warm.I've ruled out the immobiliser in my head now but no idea what to look at next... I get no errors or warning lights when it wont start so can anyone point me in the right direction?Cheers! Edited February 16, 2013 by mysterylemon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeA Posted January 1, 2013 Report Share Posted January 1, 2013 Might sound stupid, but where do you park? Mine was real low on fuel, parked it on a slope, wouldn't start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted January 1, 2013 Report Share Posted January 1, 2013 For an intermittent fault like that mate I'd have to suggest getting a code reader on it, you can't really rule out an immobiliser fault based on what I've read here. Saying that there could be several causes for this fault but without some kinda diagnosis of stored/current faults and sensor readings you may just go round and round in circles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted January 1, 2013 Report Share Posted January 1, 2013 Could be a dicky crank/cam sensor but without getting if checked you'd be chucking bits at it blind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mysterylemon Posted January 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2013 (edited) Cheers for the replies!Luckily I do have a OBDII cable so just downloaded Carport and read the codes.. Tried VCDS-Lite but to be honest, it was useless.Found a few faults on a number of ECUs but the only that could be related are the following :00282 Throttle valve positioner (V60)Output open, intermittent01176 Keynot authorized, intermittentSo this doesn't really point me in a specific direction. Could be immobiliser (although im not convinced) or could be related to the throttle valve position sensor although i'm not sure if this would cause the car not to start one minute and then start perfect the next... Any ideas?I'm also still not convinced about the immobiliser as when it "wont" start, it will start if I pump the throttle pedal for 10 seconds or so. Surely if the immobliser wasn't letting the car start, it just wouldn't start at all? Plus going by what google says, I should be getting immobiliser errors on the dash if it didnt recognise the key.Help Edited January 1, 2013 by mysterylemon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted January 1, 2013 Report Share Posted January 1, 2013 I dunno, I'd definitely go down the route of the immobiliser, it may not get its signal across to start with, then after a few seconds it picks it up. The throttle positioner shouldn't make a difference whether the car starts up or not, as the car should fire up without the foot on the gas either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mysterylemon Posted January 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2013 The Immobiliser does seem to be the suspect but still strange that it can be started with some effort.What does the Lupo Immobiliser immoblise? Fuel pump or ignition system?Also, just been out to check but is there supposed to be an immobiliser light on the dash that lights up and goes out when you put the ignition on? If so, mine doesn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted January 1, 2013 Report Share Posted January 1, 2013 Mine doesn't either, this has come up before, someone reckoned their immobiliser was fine because no key light or owt came on, not realising their instrument cluster wasn't fitted with one, and the immobilisers function is to stop the ignition process, the fuel pump will start working once the ignition is turned on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mysterylemon Posted January 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2013 Ah right well thats fair enough. Just assumed it would as most cars do.I have noticed that sometimes the fuel pump wont prime when turning the ignition on, although it seems to have no relation to whether it will start or not. Plenty of times It has remained silent and still started fine.Google seems to suggest a common problem with VWs and the immobiliser reader coil thingy around the ignition barrel.. although I found nothing relating directly to the Lupo. Is this a common issue with the Lupo too? Loose/dodgy connection etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted January 1, 2013 Report Share Posted January 1, 2013 I wouldn't say common but it does happen. Do you have 2 keys? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mysterylemon Posted January 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2013 Yep. Well, I have a timpsons duplicate I got made when I bought the car as it only came with 1. Already planning on using it from now on to see if the starting issue goes away Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted January 1, 2013 Report Share Posted January 1, 2013 Good stuff, that should hopefully rule out the key transponder, I assume the copied key has a transponder coded to the car fitted? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mysterylemon Posted January 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2013 I hope so haha. I just asked for a duplicate key. They tested the original to make sure they could read it, which they could and they then copied it all.i have tried it before though and it does start the car Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted January 1, 2013 Report Share Posted January 1, 2013 OK, just so I know for sure, did you have two keys originally and just decided to replace one of them for some reason, or did you have one key and bought a blank one off ebay or somewhere like that and then get the blade of it cut to the same pattern as your only key? If so the one you got off ebay, unless specified, will not have a transponder chip fitted in it, so it'll work while the other key is near it, but it'll soon cut out when it loses the signal from the other key with the chip in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mysterylemon Posted January 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2013 I got one genuine key with the car but wanted to get a duplicate incase it got lost.I took the genuine key to timpsons who cut and coded a new one for around £25. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted January 1, 2013 Report Share Posted January 1, 2013 25 quid for a cut and chipped key?!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mysterylemon Posted January 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2013 Yup.You had me worried so I just drove around the block with it. Perfect Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted January 1, 2013 Report Share Posted January 1, 2013 Haha! Sorry dude, didn't know they could do it so cheap, is it an old school type key? Does it work your central locking or just a blank fob? Probably where I'm getting confused. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mysterylemon Posted January 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2013 Its not a remote fob key. Just a standard key (JMA branded) that works in the doors and ignition. Not sure my lupo has remote locking anyway as the genuine key I have isn't a remote one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted January 1, 2013 Report Share Posted January 1, 2013 groovy, well thats cleared that up then, if the fault occurs with both keys, which im almost certain it will do at some near point, then it will point towards your immobiliser. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defcon5 Posted January 1, 2013 Report Share Posted January 1, 2013 In my experience the immobiliser starts the engine and the stops it after a few secondsOnce dropped the transponder out of my GTI key whilst changing the battery, took me freaking ages to figure that one out I tell you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted January 1, 2013 Report Share Posted January 1, 2013 I've never had this Defcon, the only time it's happened like that to me was when I had another key cut, as the OP, but didn't even give a thought to the chip and i had the original key next to it, on the dash, and then it shook off and fell in the footwell and the engine cut out, all other times the engine cranks and cranks and cranks its been down an immobiliser fault, I guess we'll soon find out matey! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mysterylemon Posted January 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2013 (edited) I just don't understand that it will just crank and crank but will start if you pump the throttle. Surely it wouldn't if the immobiliser was cutting the ignition? But then it also seems that if you take the key in and out a few times it will start perfectly too... Edited January 1, 2013 by mysterylemon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted January 1, 2013 Report Share Posted January 1, 2013 Tell you what would be a good idea, can you erase the fault codes on your reader? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mysterylemon Posted January 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2013 (edited) Doesn't seem so. Carport can but said my cable doesn't support it... Vcds-lite just wouldn't do anything...Will have a try again tomorrow. Edited January 1, 2013 by mysterylemon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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