Lupo GTI ITB conversion.

[Ramirez]

OH AND IF YOU CAN GET YOUR HANDS ON A COPY OF PRACTICAL PERFORMANCE CAR SEPTEMBER EDITION AND THEIR IS A FULL EIGHT PAGE DETAILED BIKE THROTTLE BODIES GOOD LUCK

If youve got a scanner can you put it up for us, Im still undesided on bike/dedicated bodies for mine.

[LINCOLNSHIRESLUPOGTI]

Are you still going for direct to head bodies?

I want to yes as they will allow me to position the bodies directly in line with the inlet ports without a gooseneck inlet manifold. Also with no inlet manifold there is more room for the trumpets and a nice airbox to feed them. Dont want the trumpets right up against the firewall you see.

What are you doing about the diffrence in port spaceing and shape?

Hopefully spacing is not a problem if I get direct to head bodies. The guy hopefully looking at it did me a stage 5 full race head with big valves etc for my mini so am going to trust him to do some serious headwork on the Lupo head. Port reshaping, polishing, flowing etc should be easy work for him. Doubt I can change valve sizes as very much doubt there will be any other available or staandard ones that are bigger but compatible!

Any update on ECU?

This bit is the sticking point. Looking to use DTA, Motec or MBE but not sure what will work with the standard engine sensors and work with the splicing into my loom easily. Going to unplug ECU and switch ignition back on to see what what lights stay on. If airbag and ABS lights go out with ECU disconnected then they should not be affected by fitting a new ECU...if they stay on then its time for a meeting with Vagcom to turn them off until a way is found to control them with new ECU. Then its just all the little ****ty things like Xenon control, alarm, pretensioners, EDL etc!

[Loopy Lupo]

so i take it (think it was jbs who were discussed) have not found a way to rewrite the standard ecu - which would of course save on a massive headache - cash - time!!

[Tigz™]

I want to yes as they will allow me to position the bodies directly in line with the inlet ports without a gooseneck inlet manifold. Hopefully spacing is not a problem if I get direct to head bodies.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I would have thought you would still have spaceing issues, even with direct to head bodies as the Port spaceing on the head is 30mm.

Even with direct to head bodies, your still not gonna be able to get them as close as that.

Its a bit of a squeeze to do it with the spaceing plate, Clifford had to cut and shut the linkages to allow the two centre ports to line up. Are you still not going to have this problem with direct to head bodies?

What is the width of them?

The guy hopefully looking at it did me a stage 5 full race head with big valves etc for my mini so am going to trust him to do some serious headwork on the Lupo head. Port reshaping, polishing, flowing etc should be easy work for him.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The head has a clover leaf shaped port, with the top piece to allow the injecter in.

If you reshaped this wouldn't the port be too large to match the ports on the boddies?

Take a look at this pic and you'll see what I meen.

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[Tigz™]

so i take it (think it was jbs who were discussed) have not found a way to rewrite the standard ecu - which would of course save on a massive headache - cash - time!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No, they cant alter the ECU to allow for a cable operated throttle.

[LINCOLNSHIRESLUPOGTI]

The head has a clover leaf shaped port, with the top piece to allow the injecter in.

Think you have concluded one issue straight away for me now mate. The port shape on the head will not match the port of a DTH body. An interfacing manifold is going to be required to change from round port on the body to a triangular (ish) port on the head and also to maount the injector at the optimum angle for the best atomisation!

There is quite a lot of room on the Gti to the firewall...well look to be anyway as the inlet manifold is a bloody big loop.

That 30mm port spacing is between the edges of the port openings though, the distance between port centres must be quite a bit more than that?

[LINCOLNSHIRESLUPOGTI]

Update:

Going to see the engine builder tonight and then he is having my car tomorrow for the day to make some investigations for himself.

Hopefully by tomorrow night should know the score of what can be / is going to be done

Had to have a new front wheel bearing last week (caused by driving for 6 weeks with a collapsed shocker while waiting for my new coilover inserts a few months ago) and now need 2 front tyres as slicks dont work in the wet too well.

May just have enough money left this month to at least buy some stuff depending on what Mike tells me tomorrow. Think I will have to buy all the bits monthly and then pay for them all fitted once I have them all as the money I was going to use on the engine is gone as I decided to pay the remaining 2 years of finance off last week.

Still by having the parts at home first, it means I can polish them all up inside and also match the bodies to the inlet manifold perfectly.

[Loopy Lupo]

sounds cool darren - keep us posted mate style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":shades:" border="0" alt="shades.gif" />

[LINCOLNSHIRESLUPOGTI]

Car went in last night for talks of what is to done and is being looked at today by an auto electrician to check how to wire in the new ECU.

Initially having bodies and ECU (maybe MOTEC) and hoping to remap VVT to make it feel more agressive like Honda VTEC. Going to get it all running then have major head and cams done at a later date to push to 190bhp+.

Worried about clutch slip as there is no uprated clutch available so going to have to map a linear power delivery to save the clutch a bit.

Just rang Janspeed to buy the manifold and sports cat and they say they have not developed it yet!!!

Rang Supersprint yetserday and their Polo Gti manifold is for LHD. Not sure if it makes a difference but they would not confirm it would fit a RHD Lupo.

Clifford & Hakeem

What ECU are you both running and have you totally removed the VW ECU? If so did you have any problems with the alarm and the xenon adjustments, clock, abs etc as this is causing a headache at moment.

[tdwindustries]

Just rang Janspeed to buy the manifold and sports cat and they say they have not developed it yet!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Did you ask them to hurry the **** up!!!! They keep telling me they are too busy for it... style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad.gif" />

[Loopy Lupo]

Did you ask them to hurry the **** up!!!!  They keep telling me they are too busy for it... style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad.gif" />

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

sounds like you need to give them a boot up the ass tim. hopefully ass won't be edited to read 'bottom'.....

[Loopy Lupo]

sounds like you need to give them a boot up the ass tim.  hopefully ass won't be edited to read 'bottom'.....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

bastid! i typed a r s e......

[Blackrat]

try this guy, he might still have the manifold

http://www.edition38.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=16884

as for the ecu im using EFI to run four other injectors, they will start spraying when the boost comes in, hopefully the std ecu wont pull the timing or its gonna be a bit of a cockup

havnt got to that stage just yet, still on lowering compression, and flowing the head style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

[LINCOLNSHIRESLUPOGTI]

Outcome from yesterday

Having a new engine loom made and ditching the standard immobiliser system and having a Clifford built in to the new loom.

Having my own inlet manifold made which is to start next week (fabricated not cast obviously) and this is to be perfectly matched to the head ports and lead in tapers of the ports.

Not finalised on bodies yet but as there is so much bulkhead room no limitations on space. Bike or webber car ones, depends which suits manifold the best. Will probably know next week when manifold work is going on.

No thought on injectors yet.

Clifford

So does the VW ecu still run your engine at moment? When you ran with no compression drop and 4 injectors did the VW ecu throw up loads of faults? Have you disconnected it yet to see what stops working when it is not plugged in? Worried about my xenon control, airbags and abs you see.

Edited September 30, 2005 by LINCOLNSHIRESLUPOGTI

[LUPOCHARGED]

Car went in last night for talks of what is to done and is being looked at today by an auto electrician to check how to wire in the new ECU.

Initially having bodies and ECU (maybe MOTEC) and hoping to remap VVT to make it feel more agressive like Honda VTEC. Going to get it all running then have major head and cams done at a later date to push to 190bhp+.

Worried about clutch slip as there is no uprated clutch available so going to have to map a linear power delivery to save the clutch a bit.

Just rang Janspeed to buy the manifold and sports cat and they say they have not developed it yet!!!

Rang Supersprint yetserday and their Polo Gti manifold is for LHD. Not sure if it makes a difference but they would not confirm it would fit a RHD Lupo.

Clifford & Hakeem

What ECU are you both running and have you totally removed the VW ECU? If so did you have any problems with the alarm and the xenon adjustments, clock, abs etc as this is causing a headache at moment.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

AT THE MOMENT IM USING SPORT ECU WITH DASTEK UNICHIP PIGGY BACK AS WE SPEAK IM WIRING UP AN EMERALD MD3K AFTERMARKET ECU TO RUN BIKE THROTTLE BODIES WITH SUPERCHARGER I WILL HAVE TO CHANGE MY CLOCKS FOR 1999 MODEL SPORT WITH THROTTLE CABLE XENONS WERE SET TO MY ORIGINAL HEADLIGHT AJUSTMENT SO NO PROBLEM THERE THE ONLY TWO PROBLEMS I MIGHT HAVE WILL BE ABS & AIRBAG AND IMMOBILIZER I WILL CROSS THAT BRIDGE WHEN I GET THERE WILL KEEP YOU UP TO SPEED AS AND WHEN style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":rolleyes:" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" />

[LINCOLNSHIRESLUPOGTI]

I WILL HAVE TO CHANGE MY CLOCKS FOR 1999 MODEL SPORT WITH THROTTLE CABLE

That has really worried me. I am having my drive by wire removed and going to cable throttle...I think what you said implies my clocks are not going to work and there are no Gti clocks suitable to throttle cable set up style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":confused:" border="0" alt="confused.gif" />

ABS & AIRBAG AND IMMOBILIZER

Think ABS should be ok although if you have EDL fitted that will probably not work although that is no big loss.

I am having to lose the VW alarm and imobilser but nothing a good Clifford set up cannot rectify.

[Tigz™]

my clocks are not going to work and there are no Gti clocks suitable to throttle cable set up  style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":confused:" border="0" alt="confused.gif" />

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Could you not remove the insides of your GTi clocks, and replace with the inners of a 75hp set of clocks?

[LINCOLNSHIRESLUPOGTI]

Not sure I have a speedo cable drive on my gearbox at all. The speedo is driven from an electronic pick up somewhere on the engine and then connected via a transducer to the Gti clocks...I think!!!

Also do not want to disturb any dash really, hopefully all wiring will be in engine bay. May just have a single wire to run if I fit a shift light.

[Blackrat]

speedo is deffinately off the gearbox, there is a small gear that goes into the box with three wire coming out of it.

rev counter could be off the engine, but is more than likely off the ecu

[Tigz™]

Ah thats what that is.

Thats not a crank sensor wire then.

******.

[LINCOLNSHIRESLUPOGTI]

CLIFFORD

You have eased my worries slightly, thanks mate.

3 wires? Guessing the speedo output is independant of the ECU then. Power supply and prob 2 signal wires that compare a signal with the difference being the output maybe?

If rev counter is from ECU that is fine, expected it to be and nearly all aftermarket ECU have a rev counter output to go with their own rev limiter

[tshirt2k]

Yea its a hall sender type ie a magnet that passes a coil and depending how fast it spins it creates pulses and its so may pulse per mph AFAIK. I had to fit one to make the corrado clocks work in my mk2 dash conversion.

Edited October 3, 2005 by tshirt2k

[LUPOCHARGED]

Yea its a hall sender type ie  a magnet that passes a coil and depending how fast it spins it creates pulses and its so may pulse per mph AFAIK. I had to fit one to make the corrado clocks work in my mk2 dash conversion.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

your speedo will work your rev counter is going to give you grief lupo/polo gti have can-buss all after market ecu's rev counter trigger will only operate on throttle cable set ups i found all this out when i fitted the only mk1 golf with late spec polo gti dashboard/centre consul and the clocks were polo/lupo gti front with 1999 spec lupo sport clocks style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":confused:" border="0" alt="confused.gif" /> have fun style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":huh:" border="0" alt="huh.gif" />

[LINCOLNSHIRESLUPOGTI]

Looks like I am retaining the VW ECU to control the speedo (as well as lots of other things) but will be driving the rev counter from the new ECU which is going to be used solely to control engine functions.

Am retaining the standard fuel pump and hopefully std injectors (they are matched to the engine) but an adjustable fuel pressure regulator is to be used to turn the fuel pressure up hoping the injectors and pump have enough margin for this. New less restrictive fuel filter as well to helpthe pump a little.

Inlet manifold is under-way but currently has triangular ports as I only dropped the port profile drawings off last night. Ports will be shaped roughly and undersize for now until an imprint from the head is taken to match the sizes exactly.

[Tigz™]

Looks like I am retaining the VW ECU to control the speedo (as well as lots of other things) but will be driving the rev counter from the new ECU which is going to be used solely to control engine functions.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So how will that work darren?

Is the ECU able to work like that?