RXStdi Posted March 21, 2018 Report Share Posted March 21, 2018 After 125k our Lupo TDI has just gone bang and am not sure whether it is worth fixing so thought I would ask for advice. It is one of the early cars (2001) and was in reasonable condition except for rust starting on wheel arches but diesels seem to be out of favour now and I am finding it difficult to get an idea what it would be worth if I fixed it? The cambelt was changed approx 40k ago (by a garage) and the cambelt still looks fine but the stud holding the cambelt tensioner had sheared off totally allowing the belt to jump. I have just got around to pulling it apart and it has bent almost all the valves but the tops of the pistons look OK and the engine turns over fine now I have the head off. I reckon I could pick up a secondhand head OK but with the cost of cambelt kit, head gasket and head bolts it looks like being a costly repair so not sure if it is worth it. Did think about a secondhand engine but if I got one I would need to do the cambelt anyway for peace of mind. Any words of wisdom? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isetta Posted March 21, 2018 Report Share Posted March 21, 2018 are diesels really out of favour generally. I know they have had some negative press but it would not stop me buying one, I feel a lot of people out there would still buy one for the better fuel economy and superior torque, particularly if they have had a diesel before. when it comes to money there are plenty of us out there who put our own pocket first and not whether we will pollute the planet. If it was mine I would probably have a go at fixing it unless I knew the car had a lot of other issues that would need money in the short term and make the whole lot uneconomically worthwhile. A friend of mine had a rover diesel which ended up with a load of bent valves, he put the valves in a vice and hammered them straight. Amazingly it all seemed fine after reassembly. I think the only two things he bought were a new timing belt and a new head gasket. Another friend had a Mk3 Escort (CVH engine). a load of bent valves which he hammered straight and a load of bent rocker arms (these are thick pressed steel). he hammered the rocker arms straight. some of them had split where bent, so he welded the splits. all worked when back together but after a while there were problems caused by valves not opening fully. this was because his welding on the split rocker arms was insufficient (a poor migweld without enough penetrartion), so he bought some secondhand rockers and fitted them and all was fine. I used the car myself for about 2 years after this. If you have gone this far with dismantling you may as well go for it (mind you I have no idea what a head and gaskets will cost you). but why did the tensioner stud shear? and can you you sort that out easily (I don't know how accessible) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mk2 Posted March 21, 2018 Report Share Posted March 21, 2018 4 hours ago, RXStdi said: After 125k our Lupo TDI has just gone bang and am not sure whether it is worth fixing so thought I would ask for advice. It is one of the early cars (2001) and was in reasonable condition except for rust starting on wheel arches but diesels seem to be out of favour now and I am finding it difficult to get an idea what it would be worth if I fixed it? The cambelt was changed approx 40k ago (by a garage) and the cambelt still looks fine but the stud holding the cambelt tensioner had sheared off totally allowing the belt to jump. I have just got around to pulling it apart and it has bent almost all the valves but the tops of the pistons look OK and the engine turns over fine now I have the head off. I reckon I could pick up a secondhand head OK but with the cost of cambelt kit, head gasket and head bolts it looks like being a costly repair so not sure if it is worth it. Did think about a secondhand engine but if I got one I would need to do the cambelt anyway for peace of mind. Any words of wisdom? get an engine off ebay or from someone who's breaking a car. while your's is in bits, you would probably be tempted to redo all the service stuff anyway, so not a big deal which lump you do it all on. if the car's in good nick, it's probably worth about 1k. engines are about £125 delivered. you just need to swap them over now. i wouldn't risk it. you may have a crack in a bearing shell retainer or even one of the bolts, or a bent con rod.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted March 21, 2018 Report Share Posted March 21, 2018 if you're local and want to sell it then i would discuss as I have a spare head kicking about and I am a chancer. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sausage Posted March 21, 2018 Report Share Posted March 21, 2018 Pics and location? I have spare head also . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RXStdi Posted March 22, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2018 Thanks for all the replies. Not decided what to do but really feel I should fix it as we are attached to the car and have owned it almost from new - as someone has pointed out I have done half the job already. The broken stud is not really a problem as it is on the head rather than the block but the head bolts are single use so by the time you add in these plus head gasket set and cambelt kit it is well over £200 and also need to buy a decent secondhand head (and there is always something else needed that you forget about) The failure was unusual and seems to be simply metal fatigue as the cambelt and tensioner were well within service limits and other than the damage caused by the breakage seemed fine. I usually do my own cambelt changes but the last one was done by a VW dealer as I was laid up with a bad back at the time. The cambelt kit normally includes the idler roller and retaining bolt but only the nut for the tensioner - I will always renew the stud as well in future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sausage Posted March 22, 2018 Report Share Posted March 22, 2018 get the broken stud out (weld something on it probably) and replace valves? Head gasket: £25 Bolts: £22 Cambelt kit: £60 Valves: £7 each. About £150 ish total. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RXStdi Posted March 22, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2018 Those are good prices - where are they from? I looked on Eurocarparts and they are quoting £165 for cambelt kit (I need the one with the hydraulic damper), £75 for head gasket set and £31 for the head bolts - I would obviously try to buy when they have one of their discount offers on. Do not think it would be a problem getting the stud out as it has not snapped off flush with surface and I have a MIG welder but not sure about replacing valves as the bent stems must have caused some damage to the valve guides? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sausage Posted March 22, 2018 Report Share Posted March 22, 2018 (edited) Ebay prices. Pics of damage? Take your valves out and use a straight one to test the valve guides for binding or slop. Edited March 22, 2018 by Sausage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RXStdi Posted March 22, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2018 Have not stripped the head down yet - will try to take some photos at the weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted March 22, 2018 Report Share Posted March 22, 2018 buy the gasket from vw. ecp ones are slightly off when you compare the two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mk2 Posted March 22, 2018 Report Share Posted March 22, 2018 "ajusa" gaskets are very good. good for motorsport use too. imho better than oem. you can double crush them (tighten/release/tighten) even when running high compression ratios. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted March 22, 2018 Report Share Posted March 22, 2018 do they make three pot tdi gaskets? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mk2 Posted March 23, 2018 Report Share Posted March 23, 2018 yeah they do, but i just lost the link and couldn't be bothered to find it again... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sausage Posted March 23, 2018 Report Share Posted March 23, 2018 AJUSA 10139320 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RXStdi Posted March 25, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2018 Lots of useful info - thanks. I had to do the head gasket on my old Golf TDI last year and used an OEM head gasket from TPS for peace of mind as the early cars like mine have a bit of a reputation for HG problems so will probably do the same again. I managed to take a few photos at the weekend but it is difficult to show the detail. The first one shows the broken stud for the tensioner and it seems to be simply due to metal fatigue and the tensioner then damaged the damper assembly as well when it dropped. When I was looking at the cost of parts I noticed that the cambelt kit from INA now includes this stud so maybe failure is more common than I thought. I have not yet stripped the head down but it is obvious that most of the valve heads are no longer central to the seats and I can only rotate the camshaft a small distance. Think I will probably look for a decent secondhand head rather than repair mine. Have also taken some photos of the tops of pistons to try to show the slight marking to piston crowns but do not think this is a problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sausage Posted March 25, 2018 Report Share Posted March 25, 2018 (edited) Probably cheapest option would be find another engine for £150 - £250 and get £100 or so for yours or break it and get even more. More work to change the engine but no hidden problems like cracked pistons etc. I'm after a working bottom end myself. Edited March 25, 2018 by Sausage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted March 25, 2018 Report Share Posted March 25, 2018 i wouldn't worry about the bottom end, there is enough bolt to grip and remove. I would buy me six valves and some red bull. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mk2 Posted March 25, 2018 Report Share Posted March 25, 2018 and if the valves are bent, your cam may be running eccentric.... so all the following problems may have been banked: (rich hates lists) damaged valve seats, cracked pistons, bent con rods, cracked or deformed main bearing shells, damaged big end shells, eccentric camshaft, valve train damaged, sleeves damaged... + probably some others i cant think of. => engine swap best bet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted March 25, 2018 Report Share Posted March 25, 2018 admittedly my belt once sheared and I just opted for a replacement engine. sounded better, tighter and faster afterwards. if I was happy with the engine I would do valves and see what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted March 25, 2018 Report Share Posted March 25, 2018 with confidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mk2 Posted March 25, 2018 Report Share Posted March 25, 2018 and some red bull... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RXStdi Posted March 27, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2018 Think I am inclined to agree with Rich (he gave me advice on fixing an ECU problem around 5 years ago when my wife (KermitGirl) had the car and it was still working fine before this failure). The bottom end looks to be pretty strong on these engines and think it is worth taking a chance on it being OK - not sure about the top end so will probably opt for a secondhand head if I can find one. Anyone know whether I could use a head from a later car like a Polo TDI? Always feel that a secondhand engine is a big gamble anyway unless you can hear it running or buy it from someone you know. I will probably strip the head down this weekend to find out how bad the damage is. Thanks for all the input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sausage Posted March 27, 2018 Report Share Posted March 27, 2018 afaik all the main hardware on the 1.4 tdi engines is essentially the same so any will do. You may as well strip the head and inspect it for damage before making your mind up though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted March 27, 2018 Report Share Posted March 27, 2018 you can use a Fabia one if you want the newest possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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