oilman Posted December 10, 2009 Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 If you are modding your car and adding BHP or using it off road then consider your oil choice carefully as the stock manufacturers recommended oil will not give you the protection that your engine requires.A standard oil will not be thermally stable enough to cope with higher temperatures without "shearing" meaning that the oil will not give the same protection after a couple of thousand miles as it it when it was new.Let’s start with the fundamentals. An engine is a device for converting fuel into motive power. Car enthusiasts get so deep into the details they lose sight of this! To get more power, an engine must be modified such that it converts more fuel per minute into power than it did in standard form. To produce 6.6 million foot-pounds per minute of power (ie 200 BHP) a modern engine will burn about 0.5 litres of fuel per minute.(Equivalent to 18mpg at 120mph). So, to increase this output to 300BHP or 9.9 million foot-pounds per minute it must be modified to burn (in theory) 0.75 litres. However, fuel efficiency often goes out of the window when power is the only consideration, so the true fuel burn will be rather more than 0.75 litres/min.That’s the fundamental point, here’s the fundamental problem: Less than 30% of the fuel (assuming it’s petrol) is converted to all those foot-pounds. The rest is thrown away as waste heat. True, most of it goes down the exhaust, but over 10% has to be eliminated from the engine internals, and the first line of defence is the oil. More power means a bigger heat elimination problem. Every component runs hotter; For instance, piston crowns and rings will be running at 280-300C instead of a more normal 240-260C, so it is essential that the oil films on cylinder walls provide an efficient heat path to the block casting, and finally to the coolant. Any breakdown or carbonisation of the oil will restrict the heat transfer area, leading to serious overheating. A modern synthetic lubricant based on true temperature-resistant synthetics is essential for long-term reliability. At 250C+, a mineral or hydrocracked mineral oil, particularly a 5W/X or 10W/X grade, is surprisingly volatile, and an oil film around this temperature will be severely depleted by evaporation loss.Back in the 1970s the solution was to use a thick oil, typically 20W/50; in the late 1980s even 10W/60 grades were used. But in modern very high RPM engines with efficient high-delivery oil pumps thick oils waste power, and impede heat transfer in some situations. A light viscosity good synthetic formulated for severe competition use is the logical and intelligent choice for the 21st century.You must seriously consider a "true" synthetic for "shear stability" and the right level of protection.Petroleum oils tend to have low resistance to “shearing” because petroleum oils are made with light weight basestocks to begin with, they tend to burn off easily in high temperature conditions which causes deposit formation and oil consumption.As a result of excessive oil burning and susceptibility to shearing (as well as other factors) petroleum oils must be changed more frequently than synthetics.True synthetic oils (PAO’s and Esters) contain basically no waxy contamination to cause crystallization and oil thickening at cold temperatures. In addition, synthetic basestocks do not thin out very much as temperatures increase. So, pour point depressants are unnecessary and higher viscosity basestock fluids can be used which will still meet the "W" requirements for pumpability. Hence, little or no VI improver additive would need to be used to meet the sae 30, 40 or 50 classification while still meeting 0W or 5W requirements.The end result is that very little shearing occurs within true synthetic oils because they are not "propped up" with viscosity index improvers. There simply is no place to shear back to. In fact, this is easy to prove by just comparing synthetic and petroleum oils of the same grade. Of course, the obvious result is that your oil remains "in grade" for a much longer period of time for better engine protection and longer oil life.If you would like advice then please feel free to ask. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macaloon Posted December 10, 2009 Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 a interesting read, il take that into consideration in future, if i choose to increase the power on mine or cars i own in the future. Nice one Oilman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oilman Posted December 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 a interesting read, il take that into consideration in future, if i choose to increase the power on mine or cars i own in the future. Nice one OilmanGlad you found it usefull!CheersGuy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CasperGTI Posted December 10, 2009 Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 Guy is an oil genius, he helped me choose the correct oil for mine.Silkoline pro-s 5-30 Fully synthetic, Great oil so far! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oilman Posted December 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 Casper, the Pro S 5w-30 is a fine oil. You will have no issues with it:)CheersGuy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
99hjhm Posted December 10, 2009 Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 Sorry, I don't get it. What are you trying to tell us.. Without the jargon??Use a thinner oil, fully synthetic oil, more expensive oil to increase power?People should be runnging the best oil they can afford at the correct grade.Oh.. Before anybody starts, I've used this guys oils and advice before, and build racing engines for a living! Just a little confused. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oilman Posted December 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 People should be runnging the best oil they can afford at the correct grade.That is the most important part. A lot of people think oil is oil and that's it. If you have a car that's producing more power than standard, more heat will be generated and the oil will need to be able to cope with it. If it's not up to the job, things can get a lot more expensive than a tub of decent oil. The best example I have heard of was a guy with a 700bhp Skyline running Tesco value oil on the basis that if he changed it often enough it would be fine. His engine seized which cost a lot more than a £50 oil change 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
99hjhm Posted December 10, 2009 Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 You are right there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defcon5 Posted December 10, 2009 Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 Guy is an oil genius, he helped me choose the correct oil for mine.Silkoline pro-s 5-30 Fully syntheticHis most recommended oil, wether it is actually the best or just has the biggest mark up, we will never know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
99hjhm Posted December 10, 2009 Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 His most recommended oil, wether it is actually the best or just has the biggest mark up, we will never know I use a 0w/40 in my Lupo.. Better protection all year round.John... How much oil does your car burn? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oilman Posted December 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 His most recommended oil, wether it is actually the best or just has the biggest mark up, we will never know I don't get involved in buying prices so I have no idea on mark ups. As far as I know, the mark ups are all pretty similar. 0w-40's tend to be good oils so they are a good choice 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oilman Posted December 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 His most recommended oil, wether it is actually the best or just has the biggest mark up, we will never know It is one of the my favorites, I use the Pro S 5w-40 in my car.Mark up is neither here nor there, the best for proffit are the semi synthetics as they are quite cheap to buy. Top end synthetics are expensive to start with.CheersGuy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty_82 Posted December 10, 2009 Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 If you didnt mark up then you wouldnt have a business at the end of the day .Good advice is priceless though, nice post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CasperGTI Posted December 11, 2009 Report Share Posted December 11, 2009 I use a 0w/40 in my Lupo.. Better protection all year round.John... How much oil does your car burn?Burns next to nothing, Gapless piston rings help alot with that matter though. I think its about 3/4 up the stick, and i havent topped it up in 2000 miles.The engine was designed to use a 5w30, so i have got the best oil i can get for it. I need a good oil that will not shear especially on start up as thats when i get my piston slap untill its warm.The oil in my engine will only see 4000 miles, then its time for a change. After spending all that money on the engine, a good oil seems nothing.john Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Litre Screamer Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 (edited) Well as i posted on your other topic, what the hell does this have to do with this forum, the "jargon" you so speak of is suited to high output, forced induction or very high rpm engines (8k +).Even with the rev limiter removed and a charger put on a lupo engine the standard VW spec oil, including third party oils will cope with no issues at all.Also can i start advertising my business on CL and pass it off as a topic or advice?????????? Edited December 13, 2009 by 1 Litre Screamer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oilman Posted December 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 Also can i start advertising my business on CL and pass it off as a topic or advice??????????Im sure if you become a trader, yes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CasperGTI Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 Well as i posted on your other topic, what the hell does this have to do with this forum, the "jargon" you so speak of is suited to high output, forced induction or very high rpm engines (8k +).Even with the rev limiter removed and a charger put on a lupo engine the standard VW spec oil, including third party oils will cope with no issues at all.I found that quantum syntha gold carbonised very fast in my car. The pro s ester based oil is nearly the same colour it started off as and thats now after 2000 miles of driving. Its only meant to last 5000, so im very impressed with it so far. Guy has helped me out in understanding oils and there bases, and what benifits are gained from certain types. If you have any input, then please share it, its a forum and its where people put the views and experiences down for others to read about.john Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oilman Posted December 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 Well as i posted on your other topic, what the hell does this have to do with this forum, the "jargon" you so speak of is suited to high output, forced induction or very high rpm engines (8k +).Even with the rev limiter removed and a charger put on a lupo engine the standard VW spec oil, including third party oils will cope with no issues at all.Have you thought that people perhaps want better then the standard oil sometimes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AwesomeAl Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 Also can i start advertising my business on CL and pass it off as a topic or advice??????????For all intents and purposes, I find Oilman's posts very inciteful and educating.Im sure if you become a trader, yes.Keep up the good work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oilman Posted December 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 14, 2009 Hi AlThanks for that. Glad to know that the advice is useful to some.CheersTim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defcon5 Posted December 14, 2009 Report Share Posted December 14, 2009 The problem is, where does the advice end and the advertising start?In the other thread someone asks about using a 0w-40, and you reply a 5w-30 would be better, but then someone else asks and you recommend a 5w-40? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oilman Posted December 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 14, 2009 We haven't put up many links to our site at all, so I'd say we've done very little advertising. A lot of our posts have just been advice on oil in general, and on things like Edge and Mobil 1, which are available in many places. We often give advice to people that need to know what to buy from Halfords as their staff do not know what to recommendWhen Guy replied to the other post, he said 5w-30 is VAGs current favourite, not what we'd recommend. We also don't just tell yuo what the manufacturer recommends, which is often the most basic thing the engine can run on, but give you our interpretation of what the car needs, based on driving style, modifications and our own knowledge. Sometimes that will lead to a difference of opinions. CheersTim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oilman Posted December 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 14, 2009 (edited) sorry, double post Edited December 14, 2009 by oilman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bikerz Posted December 14, 2009 Report Share Posted December 14, 2009 What oil for a VAG 1.8T lump running 270bhp? Change oil and filter every 4-5k, driven all year round at weekends.Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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