Lupo TDI 1.4 Sport… Knocking/ Tap at Motorway Speeds when warmed up… :S

[db247]

Haven't posted in ages… Sorry! But I'm sure you can all help.

Recently I've been having some problems with the Lupo, specifically once the car is warmed up and going along on the motorway I get a tap tap tap, knocking noise from the front. At first I thought it was more from the passenger wheel side and had the front tyres changed and the chap inspected it and said ah yes you need a new driveshaft and cv joint, which went along with some experiences I'd read online.

So I went to my usual diesel mechanic, a trustworthy guy… Both him and his worker said ah yes not what the other garage said but your gearbox could be on it's way out.. after they grabbed both front wheels and showed there was movement… They said the gearboxes are useless on these cars. They said they tightened up some cover near the exhaust and said maybe that could help but it's likely the gearbox. The gearbox wasn't accessed or tested from within mind. Just the wheels played with. They said drive it and if I need to I can go to a gearbox specialist. Great. I drove, had to go up to Preston and drove slow.

Now I'll admit something, I drive pretty slow on the motorway in the far left lane, around 55-60 in 5th. Apparently this isn't good for these engines overall and I have noticed around town when pulling away some black smoke. Which led me to more researching, google warrior style, and the egr valve.

I went back to the garage (congrats on getting this far) and he cleaned it out with some vacuum machine which produced A MASSIVE AMOUNT of black junk out the back … then said let's take it for a run. I said really the problem doesn't happen until almost an hour into a motorway run but we took it up and down the m5/6 for about ten minutes :S He said after, after clearly not getting chance to hear my problem noise, and said it does sound to me like the problem could have been caused by the egr.

He also said, you do need to give it a good run on the motorway, and a lot of experiences I read online said they do need a good italian tune up from time to time.

So on friday going to manchester from birmingham i did that… when i could. No smoke came out as far as I could see but then my friend and cleaned it out. It did feel good to use the engine properly and fortunately I got to manchester with zero problems.

Then on the way back i was plagued by 50mph zones even more and torrential rain. And after 30 minutes driving, granted not ragging it, the knock knock knock came back

Now it only happened when I accelerated, being on the pedal or having cruise control was on and this was in 5th gear from say 50 up to 65 this time. As soon as I come off the pedal, it goes. And it does sound slightly different based on the road surface. If I accelerate further it seems to get slightly faster/more intense. It isn't a deep or high pitch, and I get zero problems around town or at the start of the journey. It has happened on a number of motorway runs now. Odd that it didn't happen on the first two hour run on friday but on the return journey it started after 30 mins. The car had been parked for around 3/4 hours in manchester.

The car starts from idle with no issues. It runs around town with no problems too.

Really I guess I need a mechanic in the car as it's happening. I've tried to record the audio but I can't replicate it yet. I'll go through my recordings and see if there's anything worth posting on this thread.

It's stressing me out and i've read several different solutions. I can't afford to try them all!

Thanks a lot!!

Oh I checked the oil today and it comes up ok, the garage said that too. It's almost covering the area on the dipstick that is ridged (patterned) between the recesses

[Dblock]

Ok. Firstly thanks for the good description. Beats the my car is broke. what is it threads you can get here.

Secondly a remap or egr delete is a great way of stopping the egr problem.

I don't know too much about the gear box with regards to movement in the wheels but could it be the engine mounts. Also maybe try to film the noise on your phone and then show your mechanic and us if it's audible when driving.

[db247]

Thanks for the reply, i tried to film it… not great. I'll go through the footage and see if anything is worth uploading. It's a good idea and one i'll keep trying.

Actually the car was remapped a couple of years ago at Awesome. If i get really stuck I may go to them as they were pretty cool the few times I went in there. I think they'd be pretty trustworthy and try to get to the bottom of it. Plus the car would be nicely warmed up by the time I get there so if the noise is gonna come back, it'll be then or there abouts and maybe one of them can jump on the motorway with me for a few minutes to hear the noise.

[db247]

http://vocaroo.com/i/s0PubvlYdPLk Maybe this audio clip helps. Not sure if it's really clear enough though.

[db247]

This one just before I came off the motorway, you can hear a marked difference once I stop accelerating/ maintaining speed http://vocaroo.com/i/s0bNj3RfgdoZ

[Kes]

What if you put the clutch in and rev the car? that way you can tell if its engine or drivetrain related.

[db247]

Next time I'm on the motorway and it starts making the noise I'll try that Kes, thanks! That's good advice!

[db247]

After a day tootling across Birmingham, and strangely a two hour car rest… it started knocking, this time not on the motorway / 5th gear… but in 3rd on the uphill.. So I tested that idea. And with the clutch down and revving it there was no knocking.

Now today on the way home i noticed a very light clunk changing up to 2nd and 3rd. Not sure if it's related :S

Edited June 7, 2014 by db247

[db247]

It may be the gearbox :S

[Dblock]

I think i read something and it could be the diff do yeah gearbox. Will try to find the thread.

[db247]

I think i read something and it could be the diff do yeah gearbox. Will try to find the thread.

Thanks!

[Dblock]

its about getting a 6 speed upgrade but do timmus's symptoms match yours?

[db247]

Struggling to find "timmus" but i've read a few threads about 6 speed upgrades now.

I have an update. I was sent to a vw specialist, middlemore volkswagen in birmingham, by my friend who has a big diesel/injector garage but doesn't do gearboxes. (It was at his place we recorded the video above and him and his worker said gearbox…)

After leaving the car with them, on return they gave me a cheap option which may work:

Gearbox oil drain and change

Two front wheel bearings

Front shocks

Wishbone rubbers/bushes

£400 all in.

And they'd try to get a gearbox if that didn't resolve it. One of them told me to look on ebay to get an idea of the price but the boss looked on some polish website.

Anyway, I went away to work out what to do. They seem really nice guys.

Went to my friend's place and he said no I don't think it's any of those things but the gearbox oil change we can do tomorrow and that may well help. If it's only occurring under load after the car is well warmed up it could be thin oil.

He disagreed about the bushes/shocks/wheel bearings. But he said that's probably just a bit of a fallback guarantee for those guys and I have seen other people have that recommended to them when they've had similar experiences.

I hate garages. I always go to my friend for stuff he can do as I trust him. I know there are a lot of great places, I just don't know which they are, bar one or two good experiences with volksworks and awesome. I have emailed awesome about this but they haven't replied.

So in lieu of finding somebody trustworthy with a gearbox/ who can do that big job… my mechanic will change the gearbox oil tomorrow. Meanwhile I'll try not to stress.

[Skezza]

OK, I'm somewhat nervous reading this thread. My Lupo has developed a ticking noise when I drive along at anything above sort of 50-60Mph. It doesn't do it immediately, only once I've got going and it's warmed up. Now, I too, thought it was the CV joint, because I've also got a knock when putting a full lock on, but you reckon yours was not? Seriously am worried if it's the gearbox. It doesn't actually sound as though it's coming from the gearbox, more the drivers side front wheel. I still have a knackered front spring so is it possible I've done something worse by not replacing it?

It's certainly not the engine. If I switch the engine off doing 60MPh, the noise remains so definitely not the engine whatsoever. I'm not sure how I'd test the gearbox? This isn't the best clip in the world, but here is a sample of mine. Slows down and gets quieter when you slow the car down, gets louder as you get faster....?

Youtube Video ->
Original Video

Edited June 4, 2014 by Skezza

[Rich]

I'm not going to explain how it is the diff (db) but if you catch it then you can fix it.

Common vauxhall thing known as 'diff slap'

Skezza, clutch release bearing? I found I had a semi similar noise and it was the metal bit the bearing rests on inside the box, it had actually just worn away so it was sitting on the shaft.

[db247]

I'm not going to explain how it is the diff (db) but if you catch it then you can fix it.

Common vauxhall thing known as 'diff slap'

Skezza, clutch release bearing? I found I had a semi similar noise and it was the metal bit the bearing rests on inside the box, it had actually just worn away so it was sitting on the shaft.

Rich, the diff? I'm not good at all with mechanical terms, differential something or other? Sorry.. I'm an amateur!

[db247]

OK, I'm somewhat nervous reading this thread. My Lupo has developed a ticking noise when I drive along at anything above sort of 50-60Mph. It doesn't do it immediately, only once I've got going and it's warmed up. Now, I too, thought it was the CV joint, because I've also got a knock when putting a full lock on, but you reckon yours was not? Seriously am worried if it's the gearbox. It doesn't actually sound as though it's coming from the gearbox, more the drivers side front wheel. I still have a knackered front spring so is it possible I've done something worse by not replacing it?

It's certainly not the engine. If I switch the engine off doing 60MPh, the noise remains so definitely not the engine whatsoever. I'm not sure how I'd test the gearbox? This isn't the best clip in the world, but here is a sample of mine. Slows down and gets quieter when you slow the car down, gets louder as you get faster....?

Youtube Video ->

Original Video

Yours is a higher tick compared to mine. Mine is like a low knock increasing with speed but otherwise similar time to yours

[Rich]

The differential inside the gearbox.

Thing about when you go around a corner, the diff makes both wheels spin at different speeds.

[Skezza]

Edit, okay didn't read the post rich made:

Here's a better video:

Youtube Video ->
Original Video

As you can see, it happens on all gears. Does that sound like a clutch releasing bearing? I must admit, that was my first thought, but it doesn't do it when idling. If I dump the clutch at 60, it stops, goes totally silent. Could it be the idler gear then? It also only does it when warmed up.

Edited June 4, 2014 by Skezza

[Rich]

I shall have a think today when I'm building a 2e/pb mk2 hybrid engine and I shall get back to you with my thoughts.

[Skezza]

Cheers Rich,

Sorry for hijacking this thread, is it worth me getting my own so it don't get confusing?

Edited June 4, 2014 by Skezza

[Dblock]

Diff slap! That was the term!

I'll watch the video when on a pc. It might be diff slap or something in the gearbox with slack. Might not be. You checked oil on gearbox?

[Skezza]

It's the clutch release bearing I'm pretty sure. It's got louder today. If I dump the clutch, it goes. If I put it into neutral, it's still there. Surely a sign of the clutch release bearing as opposed to a gearbox failure?

Now the question is what to do? I've got a few jobs on this Lupo and the cost is creeping up. There's no point in paying for the bearings to be fixed as it's probably the same as a new clutch seeing as you have to take apart the clutch assembly, so what's that like £200? Plus the other things on top, I'm starting to think it might be time to look for another Lupo and either break this kidder or sell it on eBay Spares Repair. Yep, I know I'll lose a few quid, but to be honest, it's a V reg and it's got 123k miles on. It isn't really worth that much nowadays.

[Dblock]

It's the clutch release bearing I'm pretty sure. It's got louder today. If I dump the clutch, it goes. If I put it into neutral, it's still there. Surely a sign of the clutch release bearing as opposed to a gearbox failure?

Now the question is what to do? I've got a few jobs on this Lupo and the cost is creeping up. There's no point in paying for the bearings to be fixed as it's probably the same as a new clutch seeing as you have to take apart the clutch assembly, so what's that like £200? Plus the other things on top, I'm starting to think it might be time to look for another Lupo and either break this kidder or sell it on eBay Spares Repair. Yep, I know I'll lose a few quid, but to be honest, it's a V reg and it's got 123k miles on. It isn't really worth that much nowadays.

If you went for a new one diesel or petrol? If diesel then tdi or sdi.

TBH I agree with you, I'd maybe retire it for one reason. Get a newer one that is sound and benefit from the £35 tax. Although you could fix it and it will troop on most likely.

Edited June 4, 2014 by Dblock

[Rich]

Better the devil you know Skezza, a new car just brings new problems.