Engine Conversions In A Lupo ?

[djltd69]

and boys and girls im not gonna insure it like that thinking of just doing a track thing , if u understand me , anyways people help me with the engine just wondering what engine would be the easiest to fit these are what i could come up with if i cant find a engine cause tbh i actally struggling lmao, ive asked about but have to travel to devon , ( would build it from brand new but i have money just not that much money lol

Vw Passat

Audi a3

Seat leon

^ all are 1.8t

, also is it worth buying a passat 1.8t for £750, and just clean it up, just need to kno dont want to reck my car too much trying to fit it

Edited March 8, 2010 by djltd69

[djltd69]

well would this fit cause tbh dont really wanna buy somthing like this and it not fit lol

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VW-AUDI-1-8T-ENGINE-AND-TURBO-CONVERSION_W0QQitemZ320497425845QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item4a9f229db5

[Philplop]

It's out of an A6, so it's longitudinal, like the Passat one would be.

As has been said, stealthie thinks it should fit, Me and Liam have been advised, by someone who does engine conversions for a living, to stick with a transverse engine, so one from a Golf, A3, Bora, Leon, TT, Octavia, etc. They all have basically the same engine. They will all 'fit' the same as each other, but different engine codes are better than others when it comes to tuning.

I was also advised, by the same bloke, you're better off buying a full running car, as otherwise you'll end up paying a fortune for random pipes and things.

And yes, it "can be to hard". It's not gonna drop in like a Redtop in a Corsa.

[djltd69]

It's out of an A6, so it's longitudinal, like the Passat one would be.

As has been said, stealthie thinks it should fit, Me and Liam have been advised, by someone who does engine conversions for a living, to stick with a transverse engine, so one from a Golf, A3, Bora, Leon, TT, Octavia, etc. They all have basically the same engine. They will all 'fit' the same as each other, but different engine codes are better than others when it comes to tuning.

I was also advised, by the same bloke, you're better off buying a full running car, as otherwise you'll end up paying a fortune for random pipes and things.

And yes, it "can be to hard". It's not gonna drop in like a Redtop in a Corsa.

well im anyways im aving up till i turn 18 in june just looking 4 an engine also funnily enough theres an a3 up the road so ill see what hes saying thanks from all ur help guys think i kno was up ill let u kno wats happening , once i get the engine or a new car lol,

[stealthie]

It's out of an A6, so it's longitudinal, like the Passat one would be.

As has been said, stealthie thinks it should fit, Me and Liam have been advised, by someone who does engine conversions for a living, to stick with a transverse engine, so one from a Golf, A3, Bora, Leon, TT, Octavia, etc. They all have basically the same engine. They will all 'fit' the same as each other, but different engine codes are better than others when it comes to tuning.

I was also advised, by the same bloke, you're better off buying a full running car, as otherwise you'll end up paying a fortune for random pipes and things.

And yes, it "can be to hard". It's not gonna drop in like a Redtop in a Corsa.

Here you go, my longitudinal Passat engine in my Mk1 Golf with no problems.

If you have the knowledge then you can fit most things. As Philplop said you are better off getting a full running car and starting from there, I don't see why you should stick with a transverse engine though as the only major differences would be the sump baffles (if they are baffled for left/right movement) and the exhaust exit position which when fitting an engine into a different vehicle shouldnt bother you as you will have to have a custom exhaust fabricated. Obviously if it is something that is not also fitted to a similar vehicle transversely then you would have issues with finding a gearbox for said engine but with the 20v turbo you have no issues due to the amount of vehicles it has been fitted in from factory.

Like I said before though dude please DO NOT take my word that it would fit or be better to go for the Passat engine for your Lupo. I got one and fitted it to my Golf with no problems but I do have a lot of experience with this kind of thing so I knew what I was doing. I have never fitted one into a Lupo.

[ChrisA]

How do you honestly think you can do this with no knowledge about cars at all? You don't have a clue what type of engine you want/need and if we all said go for the golf 1.8t your'e supposed to run off, buy one and just fit it like some weekly magazine where you collect the bits? Wake up mate if you were serious you would have researched this already, rang garages etc alreadly. Sorry if this is blunt but you are wasting your cash it will be on ebay as "unfunished project" after 6months sitting there doing nowt..

Save ya money and buy a nicer standard car in the 1st place dude

[alexbpl]

So after all that - did we ever find out what the ideal donor 20VT car would be?

Sticking with transversely mounted engines in front wheel drive cars keeps things in a nice orderly fashion we have options like the Golf, A3, Bora, Leon, TT, Octavia.

The BAM engine seems to have a good power output, transverse mounting and it is used in more common cars. There is a nice Salvage Seat Leon 20VT on ebay which has the BAM engine. Only £1650. Buy it - nick the engine, bits and box then flog the rest. I reckon you'd probably get your money back on it.

This Link is useful for determining what engines exist, their power output and their mounting type.

Does a the BAM 20vt engine actually fit the gearbox bellhousing on the Lupo or will you have to fit the gearbox from the donor car aswell?

Which then poses the question of mounting positions as no doubt they will be different. Driveshaft length also comes into play unless it's the same - which would be too easy so that won't be the same either.

Edited May 16, 2010 by alexbpl

[GtiJames]

I'd be happy to bet a substantial amount of money that this conversion won't go any further than it is now.... Every young lad that comes on here sayin he's gonna do one never gets further than the pipedrean phase from what iv seen since iv been on here. I intend to do one but not for a couple of years yet until i'm sure I know what I'm gettin myself in for.

[alexbpl]

I'd be happy to bet a substantial amount of money that this conversion won't go any further than it is now.... Every young lad that comes on here sayin he's gonna do one never gets further than the pipedrean phase from what iv seen since iv been on here. I intend to do one but not for a couple of years yet until i'm sure I know what I'm gettin myself in for.

99% of the people who ask have no idea about anything mechanical or how things even work. They think you can go to a garage and pay £20 for a turbo kit and have 650 bhp at the wheels.

Having done previous engine swaps on other cars, I would consider myself in the 1% bracket.

[penry]

BAM engine is 225bhp but the AGU has large ports which are better for going for big power. Also BAM engines (because everyone knows they are off the S3, LCR etc go for stupid money). Ive just picked up an A3 turbo for a third of the price of that LCR

I know ive said it loads of times before but ive had to read for hours (helps that im genuinely interested) to work out what i need, rather than asking generic "which engine do i need?". That link posted earlier was comedy, a completely bare AEB engine for £400. Add turbo, inlet, ecu, loom, coils, injectors/fuel rail ETC ETC and we're over a grand before its even gone near the car.

Not to discourage people because its cool that they want to do something different, but unless you're prepared to pull your chequebook out and pay someone then you're going to have to do some of the legwork yourself rather than someone one on a forum holding your hand all the way. Good luck btw mate, i'd love to see another 20v lupo project.

[alexbpl]

BAM engine is 225bhp but the AGU has large ports which are better for going for big power. Also BAM engines (because everyone knows they are off the S3, LCR etc go for stupid money). Ive just picked up an A3 turbo for a third of the price of that LCR

I know ive said it loads of times before but ive had to read for hours (helps that im genuinely interested) to work out what i need, rather than asking generic "which engine do i need?". That link posted earlier was comedy, a completely bare AEB engine for £400. Add turbo, inlet, ecu, loom, coils, injectors/fuel rail ETC ETC and we're over a grand before its even gone near the car.

Not to discourage people because its cool that they want to do something different, but unless you're prepared to pull your chequebook out and pay someone then you're going to have to do some of the legwork yourself rather than someone one on a forum holding your hand all the way. Good luck btw mate, i'd love to see another 20v lupo project.

You mean my link was a joke? It wasn't intended for price work, just to show what engine are useful for the conversion. I'm not a ricer or a joker. I've spend as much time researching projects as I have actually carrying them out - if not longer!

As I said earlier I've seen, done and finished engine swaps and am completely aware of monies, timescales and problems.

Why am I asking about engine codes like a dumbass? Because I've never worked on VAG vehicles before and, if you don't ask, you don't get

On every single vehicle forum on the internet you get peeps who think you can open the bonnet, undo 3 cables and 2 bolts and fit a chevvy small block with 16 turbo's in 3 hours using a tin opener and a butter knife.

Hope that cleared a few things up.

Edited May 16, 2010 by alexbpl

[penry]

I was referring to this link:

well would this fit cause tbh dont really wanna buy somthing like this and it not fit lol

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VW-AUDI-1-8T-ENGINE-AND-TURBO-CONVERSION_W0QQitemZ320497425845QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item4a9f229db5

A bare engine for £400 as i said in my reply!

Your link to the QPEng website is awesome, ive used it loads of times myself and is a definite bookmark for anyone wanting to do a 20v convrsion - hence me getting an A3 on the cheap as not many people think of them as an ideal car for a donor - same for octavias or leons. Most just think mk4 20v end of story. I think we got our wires crossed as my reply was 5 mins after yours, i didnt see your reply until after i'd posted mine And i dont think i called you a ricer or a joker anywhere? lol

[alexbpl]

I was referring to this link:

A bare engine for £400 as i said in my reply!

Your link to the QPEng website is awesome, ive used it loads of times myself and is a definite bookmark for anyone wanting to do a 20v convrsion - hence me getting an A3 on the cheap as not many people think of them as an ideal car for a donor - same for octavias or leons. Most just think mk4 20v end of story. I think we got our wires crossed as my reply was 5 mins after yours, i didnt see your reply until after i'd posted mine And i dont think i called you a ricer or a joker anywhere? lol

haha sorry for the misunderstanding, I though I was being taken a fool!

Made a few enquries today about 20vt Lupos. Meeting a guy on wednesday who's done it so will take pictures and write up some info about the ins and out of the job.

It's very possible to do without masses of money being spent and it can be done in a few weeks of evening work.

[penry]

No worries mate, good luck with the info and i'd be interested myself out of curiosity. Theres a lot of knowledge out there to be shared, but when you can get paid to give out out then its not very forthcoming obviously

[TomStevo]

if you have cable throttle you need to go for the AGU, from the golf and not sure if it came in any others, thats the large port engine but more importantly that engine is cable throttle, i am 99% sure all other 1.8t engines are fly by wire, meaning if u had cable throttle you would need a lupo gti pedal box, and the wiring loom for that, making life harder,

i am picking up an APP from a seat, which is FBW, my car is cable, to get around changing the pedal box i am going to run a BAM inlet manifold with an AGU tb, with the agu loom and ecu, i will have to splice all the connectors from the APP loom onto the AGU as i am aware they are all different connectors, then i will need an immobiliser bypass, splice the lupos loom into the AGU loom,

then you have to look into custom engine mounts, once you have done that you can move onto the gear box,

you cannot use the lupo box, u need the 20v box however u have to cut a section out of the subframe to fit the egine in as far as i am aware, to get around this you could run a vr6 box which i am told is stronger and is geared for 180mph top end but dont quote me, also the vr6 clutch is suppose to be alot better than the 20v clutches, you will need custom box mounts,

then you need to have custom drive shafts made, which wont be cheap! u will also need a shallow sum p as these engines in a lupo sit rather low i am told,

the u gotta think about running the turbo piping, so u have costs of qall that on top, an intercooler, better radiator, recirc valve and all sorts of other little bits

then u gotta look into brakes, which again aint gonna be cheap, u atleast need g60 brakes

when u gotta have wheels to fit over the brakes

also i think anyone doing a conversion like this is stupid if they dont rebuild the engine beffor putting it in, spesh if u didnt know the engines past.

so far for my conversion i have racked up a list of parts of around £2k thats not including all the custom work involved with the mounts etc, not including mapping time etc,

i would say i could do it all for around £3k aswell as that list is virtually everything inc brakes, leaving me £1000 for mapping and materials for the mounts which will be getting made at home by mate of myn who happens to be a pretty good fabricator, failing that i know very nice guy that has given a very good price for it all doing

been realisic it will end up been around £5k and when u look at it the coist doesnt justify a 165bhp gain if you ask me, not then u can buy an evo 5 for not much more than 5k lol

[penry]

if you have cable throttle you need to go for the AGU, from the golf and not sure if it came in any others, thats the large port engine but more importantly that engine is cable throttle, i am 99% sure all other 1.8t engines are fly by wire, meaning if u had cable throttle you would need a lupo gti pedal box, and the wiring loom for that, making life harder,

i am picking up an APP from a seat, which is FBW, my car is cable, to get around changing the pedal box i am going to run a BAM inlet manifold with an AGU tb, with the agu loom and ecu, i will have to splice all the connectors from the APP loom onto the AGU as i am aware they are all different connectors, then i will need an immobiliser bypass, splice the lupos loom into the AGU loom,

then you have to look into custom engine mounts, once you have done that you can move onto the gear box,

you cannot use the lupo box, u need the 20v box however u have to cut a section out of the subframe to fit the egine in as far as i am aware, to get around this you could run a vr6 box which i am told is stronger and is geared for 180mph top end but dont quote me, also the vr6 clutch is suppose to be alot better than the 20v clutches, you will need custom box mounts,

Cable throttle yeah, only came on the AGU as far as i know. You would have to work out which inlet you need, you might be better with an AGU/AUM one with the throttle body on the drivers side, as the servo is on the drivers side, and the metal boost pipe that runs that side on the BAM engines would probably foul on it? Also for the scrapyard hunt, a 3pin mk3 16v throttle body should be fine, and also a mk3 CDA code gearbox (off a diesel?) apparently gives good ratios. VR6 clutch and G60 flywheel is a good option, pretty standard upgrade for the ibiza boys and think you'll need them if going for a non 20v box anyway.

Wiring wise - QPEng would be good, also Emerald/DTA/Motec etc are all tidy, you have to make your own loom anyway so they are as good as the person who maps them really. OEM management, can get an immobilizer defeat to run standard ecu and loom, spliced into the lupo loom. Advantages are you get to keep your diagnostics port, so fault finding is simple. Im going this way because after owning a 20v car i couldnt be without vagcom now. Absolutely essential!

I'll try and answer questions with my mk1 based knowledge, but looking forward to seeing some good lupo based info in this thread

Edited May 18, 2010 by penry

[ChrisA]

You know whats funny? the thought of that kid not even replying anymore as hes spent the cast on a maxpower cone and uni bbox for his 98 fiesta 1.25 etc haha