Toi gulp Posted February 9, 2009 Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 I've recently lowered my GTi on H&R springs as the plan was to do the springs first to see if i could live with 100mm ground clearance and it turns out i can and then fit the bilstein B8 dampers to make up the B12 kit.Only problem is Bilstein prices are climbing and the koni's are begining to look apealing but i really dont like the idea of a strut insert 'as per koni's website'http://www.koni.com/254.htmlhas anyone got any experience of the Koni suspension and are they worth the money........for the brand i'm sure they are but i just dont like the sound of a strut insert.Experienced Advice would be appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treblet Posted February 9, 2009 Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 Where exactly are you seeing this on Koni's website? That link just takes you to the car finder...What you're saying isn't making a lot of sense without more information Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toi gulp Posted February 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 sorry you have to enter vw, then lupo, then gti etc,i'm basically trying to decide between the bilsteins or the Koni's -the bilsteins are pricey but very good-or the koni's are slightly cheaper but it means having to modify the origional strut housings.Sense would say go for the bilsteins but i would like to see if anyones had any experience with the Koni's first!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AwesomeAl Posted February 9, 2009 Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 (edited) The Koni's are pretty good. We can get either Koni or Bilstein but recently we've seen the Quality/Ride of bilstein's fall to that of Monroe/KYB etc. The shocks to suit regular springs don't seem to be upto the same competant yet comfortable ride that they used to be back in the day.The only thing with the Koni's like you say they seem to be an insert.I don't understand why they would bother to make them at all if they were only going to do an insert? It just doesn't make any sense... I didn't realize it was even possible to fit inserts to a completely sealed strut! Edited February 9, 2009 by AwesomeAl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toi gulp Posted February 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 it looks like a recipie for disaster to me, well when i say that i mean longevity. Any manufacturer asking you to hack the top of an OE damper pull out the inards and replace them with theirs seems like opening a giant tin of worms to me, not only that for them to work properly they'd have to be a very tight fit (making assembly bloody hard) and would be best fitted to brand new OE dampers which begs the question, whats the point of buying two dampers to make one good(ish) one by the sounds of it only to make them adjustable??They cant be very strong and i've got serious doubts about how well they'd work. but your right i cant see any point of just replacing the shock inners unless its a sneaky way of making the shock look 'standard' if done properley but whats the point of that. As you'd still have a yellow damper showing on the back (assuming that is yellow).i think i've answered my own question....oops. so then back full circle to the bilsteins lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AwesomeAl Posted February 9, 2009 Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 I know I wouldn't want to fit insets to any of my cars! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kam Racing Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 recently we've seen the Quality/Ride of bilstein's fall to that of Monroe/KYB etc. The shocks to suit regular springs don't seem to be upto the same competant yet comfortable ride that they used to be back in the day.I'm suprised at that.. We haven't had one issues with any Bilsteins in the last 12 months and have not heard of anyone having problems..I've recently lowered my GTi on H&R springs as the plan was to do the springs first to see if i could live with 100mm ground clearance and it turns out i can and then fit the bilstein B8 dampers to make up the B12 kit.Another option to consider is Bilstein's GTi motorsport dampers which I'm pretty sure we can still get. PM me if your interested and I'll find out a price for you.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longtrek Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 I could be wrong, but my mk2 golf is just the same. I bought the koni inserts. To fit then I simply unscrewed a cap that held the original damper. (At the bottom near the spring perch). Then put the new koni insert in its place. It took an extra 15 mins a side if that. So if the Lupo is the same I see no problem. As for the decision between koni or bilstien. I have had koni yellow dampers in my golf mk2 years and have been very impressed, not to harsh on the road set at the softest and can be cranked up easily when needed. I have never used bilstien, but you rarely hear a bad work for them Hope this helps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toi gulp Posted February 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 As a whole how did you rate the koni's then, in the whole assembly thing, was it easy to do, any special tools? did anything need to be drilled or cut?i'm hearing that some people say the bilsteins are a bit harsh for road use and the koni's are more comfortable yet can be firmed up for the occasion when the lupo's on the track for example.Do H&R do dampers? from what i can tell their 'sport' or 'comfort' kit is basically a bilstein B12! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AwesomeAl Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 I'm suprised at that.. We haven't had one issues with any Bilsteins in the last 12 months and have not heard of anyone having problems..We sell the Basic setup intended as a replacement for standard and the last few sets haven't seemed much better than the standard dampers. Maybe just me expecting too much from them, or maybe even down to the choice of springs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toi gulp Posted February 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 We sell the Basic setup intended as a replacement for standard and the last few sets haven't seemed much better than the standard dampers. Maybe just me expecting too much from them, or maybe even down to the choice of springs.what exactly do you mean by ride quality being no better than OEM dampers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AwesomeAl Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 what exactly do you mean by ride quality being no better than OEM dampers?Well Bilstein do Standard replacement shocks (i.e. Not sporty, not lowered) and many moons ago they used to be really really good in terms of comfort. More recently these seem to be just the same as anyone elses Standard replacements.This in no way applies to any of the "Performance" products. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toi gulp Posted February 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 ah i see. supose on a points scale out of ten how would you compare bilstein and koni?i know you may not have experience of either shocks in the lupo gti, but i'm looking for an overall score. e.g. what would say are the bilsteins strengths and weaknesses and again for the Koni's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kam Racing Posted February 12, 2009 Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 We sell the Basic setup intended as a replacement for standard and the last few sets haven't seemed much better than the standard dampers. Maybe just me expecting too much from them, or maybe even down to the choice of springs.To be honest I wouldn't expect a noticeable difference in ride between the Bilstein before OEM replacement and OEM as they are not uprated. I would say they are more likely to last longer than other OEM replacements.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AwesomeAl Posted February 12, 2009 Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 To be honest I wouldn't expect a noticeable difference in ride between the Bilstein before OEM replacement and OEM as they are not uprated. I would say they are more likely to last longer than other OEM replacements..back in the good old days they used to be a better ride than the standard VW items ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longtrek Posted February 12, 2009 Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 Replacing the inserts required no special tools I simply nipped the strut leg in the vice and used an adjustable pipe wrench to simply unfasten the securing cap. It was no big deal, if you can take off the strut you should not have much of a problem removing the cap, potentially the most difficulty you could have is the potential for the cap been rusted on, but some plus gas and determination and it should not be too much of a problem. You seem to be swaying to the Koni’s, I wouldn’t let the insert put you off, its just something you have to work around like everything else when working on the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toi gulp Posted February 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 getting some good feeback on this. I would ideally go for the bilsteins proven track record etc... but the temptation of spending less on the konis and having the adjustment is equally tempting. but still got reservations about the insert bit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longtrek Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 (edited) Spend the extra coin then, buy the Bilstein dampers, I doubt you will regret buying them. That said I would speak to Koni. The rear dampers have the same part number across the entire Lupo range. The front struts from a lesser model may have the same damping rates and rebound adjustability, but you get the whole sealed strut on purchase. That’s another option Edited February 13, 2009 by longtrek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toi gulp Posted February 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 (edited) Right, bilsteins have been ordered so i'm now looking forward to some improved lap times i hope. mind you any car is only as good as its driver. so the more responsive the suspension should improve my confidence in the twisties.on a slightly different note, does anyone know if the H&R lowering springs/sport springs whatever you want to call them are the same as the H&R springs that come on the bilstein B12 kit.......i hope they are??p.s many thanks for the offer jon. Edited February 23, 2009 by Toi gulp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toi gulp Posted March 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2009 bilsteins are on and so far so good, i'll just have to wait to the upcoming track day to see if theyre as good as they say they are Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niche Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 The Koni's are pretty good. We can get either Koni or Bilstein but recently we've seen the Quality/Ride of bilstein's fall to that of Monroe/KYB etc. The shocks to suit regular springs don't seem to be upto the same competant yet comfortable ride that they used to be back in the day.The only thing with the Koni's like you say they seem to be an insert.I had KYB gas shocks on my Lupo Sport with the standard springs, left the rear shocks as I was being a tight wad and the ride quality was superb, cornered flat but understeered, probably didn't help that I didn't do the rear shocks lol.I'm looking to replace the shocks on my Polo within the next 10k miles/1 year, I'm not into modifications as I'm driving a 1.2 but would you recommend I do the same and get a set of KYB gas shocks all around or would you recommend another brand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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