AFH Conversion

[MdBrOoN]

Hi guys, my lupo sport's engine seized over the winter and i have been looking at an AFK (Standard sport engine) and an AFH (Polo 6n 16v engine)

I was wondering, what are the main differences, fitting wise and mods wise. There are a lot of stainless manifolds etc for the AFH on ebay and the like, would these fit on an AFK as well? Would be keen on getting a few extra horses out of the new engine so what would be the best option?

Any help much appreciated

Cheers

Mark

Edited April 7, 2010 by MdBrOoN

[TomStevo]

i know the stainless manifold will fit butr it needs to be bent around the sump, and am pretty sure you can get all the same stuff, you can get cams, u can ITB one

and am pretty sure the AFK will be easier, not sure if you will need the loom splicing or anything with the afh

i know they use the same inlet manifold and a can check for you tomorow if they are the same cams, same block, same head etc on ETKA if you'd like?

[CasperGTI]

AFK is an aluminium block, Meaning you cannot remove the crankshaft without deforming the bearing pedestals.

If you were to remove the crank, you would need the bearing surfaces line honing, which requires specialist machinary to do so.

AFH is a cast iron block, meaning the crank can be remove without deforming the block.

The AFK engine is a newer engine, has knock control and other various controls over the AFH, but the AFH head is much more tunable for high rpms and has much easier aftermarket cam set up as there are vernier pulleys available for it.

The AFH will take some work though i would think, sensors are all different so its not going to be a direct replacement.

As for the cams, The AFK uses the double belt set up, and the AFH uses a single belt over both cams. I very much doubt the AFK cam will fit in the AFH, or vise versa.

AFH Also uses a dizzy, and different ignition and injection system.

John

Edited January 30, 2010 by CasperGTI

[TomStevo]

haha that got me told lol, if your going to go for the AFH you may aswell do the polo gti engine, surley it will be identical in terms of fitting as the AFH?

[MdBrOoN]

Thanks both for your help. I was originally going to do a polo gti conversion, but they are a lot harder to come by than an AFH.

There are quite a lot of complete AFH conversions going for sale over on club polo as they are quite popular to use on the mark 1-3 polos.

If i was to get a complete conversion (loom, ecu etc) would it be straight forward enough?

Cheers again, Mark

[MdBrOoN]

Think i'm gonna go ahead and do the AFH conversion, cheers for your help and will let you know how i get on!

[MdBrOoN]

Well my Brand new AFH arrived on friday and haveing dropped the AFK i was able to get straight to work over the weekend.

Just about everything off the AFK fitted on the AFH, however i need a complete new timing system, as the AFK uses a 2 belt system, where one big belt

goes from the crank pulley up and around the water pump and idlers etc up to the inlet cam pulley, and another smaller belt goes around the 2 cam pulleys.

On the AFH it uses a single belt which goes arond every thing including both cam pulleys.

The water pump is also a slightly different fit, and i need an AFH distributor and coilpack.

Also, the left front engine mount is slightly different, due to the different timing system.

However, if someone was to buy a used engine, it would probably come with all these parts anyway

Ordered most of these parts from a guy on club polo, including loom, ecu, clocks etc, so should be fitting the engine soon

Will keep you updated as i go along, currently at uni so i can only work on it at weekends:(

Hopefully this can be of use to people wanting to upgrade to the equivalent of sport power, as the AFH's are a lot easier to come by

Seized AFK:

New AFH :

Empty Bay :

New AFH again :

Most things fitted:

[Mitchell]

my 1600 afh hybrid is distributorless.

[MdBrOoN]

Yeah is that because the 1.6 has a crankshaft sensor or something like that?

[Mitchell]

i'm running omex management and yeh the crank has toothed ring and sensor

[MdBrOoN]

Managed to get a fair bit done over the weekend, the loom, ecu, clocks and dizzy arrived, so i stripped the car out completely and got to work on the wiring- not much fun!

Loom :

Clocks:

Changing over the engine bay llom and ecu was straight forward enough, although it was a dash out job. Will have to do a bit of splicing to get the headlight bulbs and indicator bulbs and a few other bits and bobs to get everything to work. However the interior was a bit of a nightmare. I stripped out all of the original loom and got to work with the polo loom, but then decided it would probably be a lot easier to put the original interior loom back in, and get my ecu recoded to match my original imobiliser.

Just about all the connections were different (tail lights, door looms etc) so i reckon that recoding the ecu will be a much easier solution.

Stripped :

Decided to paint the rocker cover with halfords vht mettalic black, with yellow highlights ( I used hammerite) quite happy with the results, but need a few more coats of hammerite I think.

Fitted the dizzy and throttle body, and have an engine mount and crank pulley on the way, just need to source some cam pulleys and water pump, and get it all timed up and hopefully have it running soon!

I do have a question that hopefully someone will be able to answer : On the new engine the bit where the oil filter attaches is missing the threaded part that the filter screws on to.Would it be possible to swap it over? Hopefully the next pictures will make it clear :

AFK with threaded part :

AFH missing threaded part :

If anyone could help i would be really greatful

Mark

[MdBrOoN]

Got quite a bit done since last post, managed to sort out the oil filter threaded part for a start.

New coil pack, water pump, cam pulleys, crank pulley and engine mount arrived last week, so got straight to work over the weekend.

Set the timing, got the engine in the car and all wired up, and connected respective fuel lines etc.

Unfortunately my battery is completely dead, so couldn't get the ignition on to decode the ecu, which was a bit of a set back, but got one coming this week:D

Took a few pictures :

Also took the inlet manifold off and apart to polish the inside of it, and give it a lick of hammerite to touch it up as well.

Polishing the throttle body as well, just little bits like that till i have the rest of the bits.

Also decided to dismantle the old AFK and teach myself about the internals a bit. Was a bit shocked by the state of it!

For the bin i think!

Gradually getting there, hopefully not too long till its back on the road!

[truCido]

Good work! that is in a bit of a state isnt it!!

[MdBrOoN]

Cheers buddy! Yeah its definitely had it like. But tbh i was more shocked at the condition of the inlet manifold, full of crap !

Beginning to think it wasn't looked after very well by the previous owner like!

Spent my time off today cleaning and polishing the throttle body and inlet manifold, and painting the exterior of them as well.

Looks a lot better anyway!

[jr]

have you run this yet as looking at doing the same conversion and be very intriged about the wiring beeing plug in and play

[MdBrOoN]

Not yet mate, finally got the ignition on today,and everything was working, which was a big relief.

Just waiting on a mount from saf and spark plugs and it should be good to go.

The lupo interior loom plugs straight into the afh engine loom, however the wires need to be spliced to fit to the headlights and side repeaters, which hopefully won't be too big a job.

Will let you know how i get on

[MdBrOoN]

Well after many hours of trying to work out how to use vag com, and trying to get the ht leads in the right order, i finally managed to get some life out of the engine, only for me to forget to put a bloody oil pressure switch in, so now my nice clean bay is covered in fresh oil!

Hopefully will get it sorted tomorrow after work, and will get some videos, sounds mean with just the manifold and cat on!

Now just need to get my gear linkage on (any tips?) and put new brake fluid in and get insurance, then i can run it in

[MdBrOoN]

Managed to put a temporary oil pressure switch from my old engine on, however its not quite the same so i have ordered the proper one.

The engine starts first time everytime, but the idling is all over the place, even after playing about with the dizzy.

I believe that this is probably to do with the engine speed sensor not plugged in(i have no idea where it is), and possibly the dizzy could be bad ( if you look in it while the engine is running, sparks fly all over inside it.)

I have included a video link, as this is my first ever conversion and i am by no means a mechanic, so hopefully it will help more knowledgeable people on here to help me out?!

any help is seriously appreciated.

Cheers , Mark

Edited April 7, 2010 by MdBrOoN

[MdBrOoN]

Just a wee update, car is back on the road now, done 500 miles and the only problems i've had is blowing up a coil pack whilst wiring up an aftermarket rev guage

(Standard one isn't working, need to figure out where the wire that used to go to the crankshaft sensor is) and the oil pressure warning light is flashing, even after

fitting a new pressure switch, any ideas?

Sorted all the idling problems out, and engine is very responsive compared to the afk, feels better in the lower revs too.

Took the old engine into a scrap metal place and got £50 quid for the head and block which i thought was not bad, i still have the cams and rocker cover as they seem to be in good condition.

Will try and get some videos of it running, however my tax and mot expire on friday, and i still have a few things to sort out.

Planning on getting an oil pressure guage so that the same thing doesnt happen again! any ideas on how to wire one up?

Cheers, Mark

[My_Names_Buck]

Well done pal

[grungeisdead]

you need an oil pressure sender, and a t piece adaptor that will allow you to plug in your oil pressure sender and switch (for the buzzer) in, you can use a g40 part or get the piece from merlin motorsport for about 8 quid.

its two wires, one goes to the guage, one goes to the guage, and the guage has a ground and live feed.

id change the dizzy if you can see it arcing, ive got one but not sure of the condition, i can send it out and if it works you can wing me some dollar if you want?

also the headers on the lupo manifolds are tiny compared to that of even the standard cast iron mk4 polo afh manifold. i ran the lupo gti std 4 branch on my mk2 polo afh conversion for about 3k miles to no ill effect, got a proper custom mani on it now and you can tell the difference in breathing already!

[MdBrOoN]

Got a sender and mounted the guage but never had enough time to wire it up, my oil pressure warning lamp kept on flashing anyway, not sure if its something to do with the lupo interior loom not being the exact same as the polo interior (probably why my rev guage isnt working as well) so ive just put the sender straight in where the pressure switch was before. will probs get a t peice at some point just to be safe though.

Also the buzzer on my clocks doesnt work anymore (for leaving lights on and oil pressure) any ideas?

Yeah might take that dizzy off you after i'm finished at uni in 3 or 4 weeks, car is SORN'd just now anyway so in no rush.

If you still have the R1 tb's in a few weeks after that when i have a job again ill take them off you too;)

Sounds like a new manifold is on the cards then, it definetly feels like the engine wants to pull more in the higher revs, but just doesnt.

Cheers for your help

[grungeisdead]

which sender are you running then, the one for the guage or for the warning system?

you need the one for the warning system in, if you earth the dash wire, itll flash but not buzz, if you remove the earth itll buzz. get the t-piece man merlin motorsport or gaybay about 7 quid.

rev counter will take a feed from the coil negative, or from the dizzy. not sure what igntion setup your running it on? all factory afh stuff?

[MdBrOoN]

awesome, will get one and give it a shot when im back.

Yeah running factory everything just now, saving up for some sort of aftermarket management, my dad has emerald in his kitcar seems quite good.

Managed to get the aftermarket rev counter working off the coil cheers, just need to find the wire that the factory tacho takes a reading from if you get me?

Cheers again

[grungeisdead]

haha id nick your dads emerald =D say it was pikeys.

on the older polos its a red w ire with a black stripe for rev counter, not sure about das lupo but im sure youll get to the bottom of it,

come find us at a show fella, would be good to have a nose around.

peace