2nd stage intercooler for 1.4TDi

[Jabo]

I have an idea for 2nd stage intercooler installed between stock intercoolres exhaust and ehngine inrtake.

To move design a bit further I'd need to know what's the charge temp range and waht's the max volumetric air flow per time unit (leaving `air-air` standard intercooler, approx values needed) and Lupo's power generator characteristics (how much jusice it has spare after supplying the engine and consumer units).

Anyone can halp me on that one please?

[Arvid]

I know that it is better to use one bigger unit than 2 seperate units. Or you can use a air/water cooler instead of the air/air intercooler.

[Jabo]

YEs, I agree with you 100%. YOu can even buy a water spray coolers for your existing `air-to`-air inrcooler which is linked to engines ECU and fully automatic.

What I want ot achieve is a 100% `bolt-on` mod possible to be installed by absolutely anybody.

All what needs to be done is replacement of one straight run of the plastic pipe running from intercooler into engines air intake and hooking up electrics with my contraption.

I don't want to f00k with anything else inside since my knowledge of TDi engines is not sufficient to do so.

I do have some good working knowledge of high flux and high energy density cooling techniques style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

I need above info to size cooling elements (charge volumetric flow in time unit and the amount of juice I can rob car power generator from (alternator sp?)

[Jabo]

LAst nite I had a look in the engine bay and saw written on my turbocharger as follows: Garret 43.

I tried to look for specs of this unit but faild, anyone?

(to get air flow characteristics)

[Snoopy]

Don't know if that was a typo, but if not, it's spelt Garrett - might help with your search.

Why not `e-mail` them directly and ask? Can't see why they wouldn't give you the specs.

[Altern8]

http://www.allardturbosport.co.uk/

im gona get one of them for my lupo style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":twisted:" border="0" alt="twisted.gif" />

[Jabo]

hawk eye snoopstah style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" /> yes, it was a typo, my typing skills are ... you can see by yourself style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

I wil push them an email. It is a tad hard to find appropriate contacts on Honeywell site but I found two UK Gerrett official distros, sb should be able to help me.

@Altern8 -> yeah, I you are willing to do some more modding then `water-to`-air intercooler upgrade looks quite promising.

I am going for a design capable of lowering charge temp to at least ambient if not much lower.

Cooling elements I am planning on using go to -25C `no-load` with very limited air flow and 25C ambient (room temp).

I suppose I'd have to stuck two sensors on `air-to`-air existing intercoler to check its efficiency first. I will need iexisting interc. to `pre-cool` the charge to make my 2nd stage more efficient.

The effect will be two fold, or even three fold.

1. Charge pressure will increasae

2. volumetric density/oxygen content will increase

3. ECU will be fooled into thinking that its winter style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":lol:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" /> since intake air sensor will be reading ery low charge temp and will set itself to winter fuelling trim.

At least that's what I hope to achieve. It all depends how much juice will I be able to suck from the alternator and how hot the charge is after leaving the existing intercooler, hence my need for data here.

Heat exchanger will have higher free cross sectional area than the existing piping further increasig pressure, slowing down the charge flow locally thus allowing it to stay in there for a wee bit longer and dropping temps even further.

If I get any condenstae inside it will act as water mist cooling he he he style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />

[Arvid]

Altern8 do you have a petrol or diesel engine? I had a turbokit on my 1.4 wich used a Garrett T28, a perfect combo with the small displacement.

[Altern8]

mines a tdi style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

[Arvid]

DIESELPOWER! (prodigy)

[Jabo]

Altern8 do you have a petrol or diesel engine? I had a turbokit on my 1.4 wich used a Garrett T28, a perfect combo with the small displacement.

Do you now by any chance the model designation and number of stock Gerrett in 1.4TDi?

[Arvid]

I tried to google to find the answer but i can't find the specific type turbo anywhere :?

[Jabo]

I tried to google to find the answer but i can't find the specific type turbo anywhere :?

Welcome to the club style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":P" border="0" alt="tongue.gif" />

Will be snding an email to Garrett (Honeywell) directly with the question then style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

[Arvid]

hahaha it's a variable unit that is the only thing i found. Hope they give a reaction soon!

[Jabo]

Sent an email to BTN Turbo and Turbotechnics, I will wait and see...

[johnyardley]

Hi,

Has any tdi pd owner got experience of companies that offer remapping.

I am thinking about using revo technik

Any advice would be appreciated

Cheers

John

[Arvid]

I know Dahlback does the TDI but as for quality and reputation i would go for REVO

[Jabo]

Y'day I managed to install some additonal lighting in my garage which allowed me to check my engine bay better. I had a good look at my alternator.

It is Bosh unit which is rated 140A @ 14v which makes it one massive 1.96kw unit...

Is this data correct?

I also went to get some quotes for milling of necessary parts but costs are so high that it looks like I'd be better off buying a micro milling drill (not that micro since it weights ~100kg style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /> ). Original design (now tweaked) was so demanding that only laser milling could dream about coping with it...

I also looked at the sensors location in the charge delivery system, it looks like would have to relocate one of them, any thoughts on that?

BTW, anyone has the full description with schematics of charge delivery system (1.4TDi lump)?

Thanks everybody!

Pete

[Snoopy]

140A?

ETKA reckons they only do a Bosch 70A and 90A unit for the GTI - the latter being fitted if you have air conditioning. There's nothing higher than 90A listed as being fitted to any Lupo GTI...

Edit: Sorry, forgot it was a TDI. Do you know the engine code?

Edit 2: 1.4 Turbo Diesel engine code is AMF. Just checking alternator options.

Edit 3: Got there in the end - OEM unit for AMF engine code is a Bosch unit putting out 120A, according to VW. Although they also do a 70A and 90A version for the AMF engine... Would really need the part number to confirm absolutely.

[Tigz™]

All I know is when I called VW about the Alternator, I was told that the only Alternator that would fit my car was the GTi 90amp one and my 70amp one.

Dont know why the Tdi Alternator wont fit though.

[Jabo]

When I make a brake form my PC screen I will pop down to my garage and check it.

I am dyslectic and genreally crap with numbers na letters (it shows in my typing, all the letters are there but no necessarily in the right order or some more are added, the latter being due to my clumsy digits style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /> ).

I will check again what's written on alternators casing and check engine codes

*note to self: get ETK & ELSA ASAP!*

Thanks fellas! Your help is greatly appreciated and if the whole thing works you will get to use it at production costs style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

P.S. Checked prices of mills... bummer will have to fork out £200.... will try economy option of buying milling table since I got a drill press...

[Jabo]

Here's a scan from my Loop's Service Book:

I posted this image since frankly I could never make heads nor tails from this little stickers...

I hope it's of help style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

P.S. I found a beautiful CNC machine on ebay :http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...3847119096&rd=1

erm, slightly over budget .....

If I only knew my 2nd stage inter would work as well as I think it should i'd have bought that baby by now style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

[Jabo]

140A?

Edit 3: Got there in the end - OEM unit for AMF engine code is a Bosch unit putting out 120A, according to VW. Although they also do a 70A and 90A version for the AMF engine... Would really need the part number to confirm absolutely.

Checked again and it is 120A and not 140A as I misread in the first place :oops:

I also noticed it was written on the tag 14V, does it mean that Loop's elec. instalation is all 14v or there are converters to 12v (like for the light bulbs)?

Thanks!

[Snoopy]

12V is somewhat nominal in a car - generally when the engine is running you should be seeing a battery voltage of 13.8V.

When running, my car voltage has varied between 14.1V and 12.3V.

[Jabo]

Thanks snoopstah m8:)

It is nice to know that I have the beefy alt in my Lupo, should be nuff to power my contrption:)

I read somewhere (was it VWvortex?) that av. VW elec load (excluding glow plugs) is in a region of 80amps. Is that correct?

I am planning on installing a timed switch circuit so the whole thing kicks off when plugs are off and engine reached operating temps.I'll also add an override button, mainly for summer usage.

With the timer I should be able to avoi the peak power draw period during the `warm-up` period style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

aberdeendj posted a link to quite interesting US site http://tdiclub.com/TDIFAQ/ - for a n00b like me it was quite useful to look at, also, if you go to articles there is va very informative article about gauges installation methodology. According to it it is quite easy to install and wire a boost gauge, unless this guide is not 'entirely' correct?