Mooresy

Ha ha ha, Its never that fooking easy is it! Having got it running sweet on Monday I then commenced to purchasing new disks, pads, Shell Helix oil, oil filter, air filter, cabin filter and fresh brake fluid to bleed through. All of these were fitted 26th and it was running very nicely indeed.Took it for a test spin, all good. Came to start it today and guess what. Yep, It wont start. Turning over, but wont fire. Plugs wet again, and plugs sparking again, however spark looked a bit weak. So, as mentioned in my previous post. Quote - Still cant get my head around it. Well I can, but there are still some things I don't understand. Yep, I couldn't understand what was wrong with the HT leads, because there was nothing wrong with them. Swapping them out was a fluke. Swapping the old ones back was a fluke, and a bloody good one, Had me, half fooled. Changed the coil for the second hand one I bought, still would not start. Then thought Id swap the distributor over, Did this and guess what, It started, Trimmed it in and all was good, running sweet again Turned it off/on many times, all good. So I resigned myself to a dodgy Halls sensor or something, and packed away. Just as Id finished and was loosing the light, tried it again, it had been stood for about 15 mins. Would not start, turning over fine. but just not firing AGAIN!!!! Plugged in the diagnostic and Im getting two fault codes, the same ones that have always been present. 00533 Idle speed regulation control limit exceed.01087 Basic setting not performed, signal outside tolerances. This is what the Snap-on diagnostic says - 00533 Idle speed regulation control limit exceed - Intake leak/blockage, throttle valve tight/sticking IAC Valve or ISC actuator/position sensor. 01087 Basic setting not performed, signal outside tolerances - Throttle valve tight/sticking. So looks like a throttle body issue. Would this allow the car not to start, then to start, then not to etc? So far spent £176.50 on getting a car back on the road that wont run, It did run, and tricked me into spending more money, then stopped again. I really have to move on now.

Cheers, Yep, nothing worse than posts that come to nothing. I mean, its fine, some things in life do come to nothing, but you need to say so. What happened next, did you get it sorted or what? I have read plenty of these over the years and quite a lot of in the last four weeks.

OK, Its fixed. Thanks for all the support and suggestions. Still cant get my head around it. Well I can, but there are still some things I don't understand. Bought a set of new Intermotor HT's, fitted them today and it fired-up instantly and settled to a smooth idle at around 900 rpm. Perfect. Totally confused by how the originals failed, all at once, all together, also how each plug was sparking strongly when tested with no tracking when checked in the dark. Also, checked with strobe HT clamp and it showed them to be sparking. Finally, tested them for continually and resistance and all tested fine. So why didn't they allow the feckin' car to run? Took the new ones off and replaced with the old again, just to check that I wasn't loosing my head, and no, wouldn't start, just 'chugging' on one cylinder? intermittently. Took each plug out and to check and they were fooking sparking, every fooking one!!! Put the new ones back on, fired up instantly, ticking over smooth. So, what happened was, the car was stood for over two years and started every now and then, It always started and ticked over fine. The week before I got into these problems it started fine and ticked over sweet. The very next weekend it was started again and developed a misfire on one cylinder. At this stage I beloved it to be a plug lead perhaps as I found that one could be unplugged without effecting the running. Next weekend it wouldn't start, so this made me think it perhaps has a dodgy lead, but now something else has developed. These are the readings for the defective plug leads. ie defective meaning they allow the plugs to spark and give the impression of functioning leads but not allow the engine to run? 4 = 5.48k Ohms3 = 5.94K Ohms2 = 5.74k Ohms1 = 5.83k Ohms For reference the new plug leads all tested at around 2 - 2.5 Ohms. Now I don't think the results above are bad enough not to allow the car to run, but it appears that they are? This has been a frustrating journey, that totally mislead me. Still will never know how the HT's can go from an intermittent misfire on one cylinder to a complete no-start in less than half an hour. One big circle. Just glad it was something an nothing.

Interesting, I'm having lots of problems with mine at the moment, cant get it started at all after being laid-up for 2.5 years. I'll check this out.

As mentioned, All HT's checked, Dizzy cap new, all plugs firing with a strong spark when out of the cylinder. all leads illuminating my timing strobe when in the cylinders. All timing marks line up. Yep, all I can now do is start to change parts staring with the cheapest, Got some leads on order to rule that one out and also a second hand distributor, which comes with another cap. If these don't fix it then I'll go for a coil, failing that? Throttle body? I honestly don't know. Exactly the route I didn't want to go down...

Thanks, Fuel pump fuel control relay Fuel filter As previously mentioned the fuel system is fine. The tank was drained and refilled with fresh fuel and the fuel filter was changed at the same time, once fresh fuel was in the tank. Tank pump working fine, relay doing its job. (already checked this by disconnecting the fuel line at the filter and tuning the ignition on) Spark plugs wet with fuel when trying to start. So, the fuel delivery is good to go other than possibly the the timing of the delivery into the cylinders? Ignition coil or module Again, as previously mentioned this has been ''bench' checked, not under load, -Bridging pos to neg = 0.07 Ohms - In spec (VW state 0.5 to 1.5 Ohms)Bridging pos to HT Output = 3.08k Ohms - In spec (VW State 2.5 to 4.0 K Ohms)So the coil appears good and the ignition leads are good along with all the spark pugs and dizzy cap, all bench tested. All plugs sparking strongly when removed from cylinder, so not Halls sensor in dizzy... or is it? I have fuel and ignition, the timing is correct (mechanically) and all cylinders, show the same compression. As mentioned, it started and ran fine 5 weeks ago, then gradually deteriorated to where we are now. Not sure what you are calling the MAP sensor (ref above Motronic 9.0 schematic). This would be the intake manifold pressure I assume a there is nothing else unless part of the throttle body assembly. I have tried starting the car with the connection to the manifold pressure sensor undone and it throws up a fault code 00519 -Intake manifold pressure sensor open circuit / short with power intermittent. On re connection this clears. Does not seem to make any difference if it is connected or not, the car still splutters and chugs just the same. Ignition switch fine. Every fuse removed and checked, but not done the relay's yet as surely if it were a fuse or a relay, then it would either work or not, it does run. but chuggs very badly then sneezes through the throttle and dies, which would indicate a timing anomaly to me. As the timing is mechanically correct (and hasn't been touched) then it may be a 'rouge' signal from a failing halls sensor? I really don't know. Interesting point about the EGR valve. May be worth checking this out. If I can get to the thing without taking the engine out! If it were something that could be diagnosed either with the scan tool, a multimeter or a process of elimination then I would have fixed it by now, unfortunately, everything is drawing a blank and pointing to the only way to sort this out is buy changing parts, which is exactly what I wanted to avoid, as I could have done this from the off and not wasted a load of time 'diagnosing' something that was 'undiagnoseable' The failure mode (or lead up to the failure) was - Car started with old fuel and fuel filter, as was, from being stood, it was started every few months prior to that and was OK. Jumped from another car as the battery was kanackered. Started and ran perfect, settled down to a smooth tick-over and revved freely, left ticking over for half an hour. I week goes by. Bought a new battery and fitted. starts up fine but then starts to run lumpy (like it was only firing on 3 cylinders). The testing began... I week goes by. Still running on 3, out of frustration sprayed the whole engine and components in WD. Restored, running smooth, revving freely, then 5 mins later running worse than ever and wont really start, just chuggs the sneezes through the throttle. Another 4 weeks of research and testing. That's it, pretty much everything has been checked out, cant find anything wrong (well, anything that tests wrong) so, its change parts out time. Thanks for there suggestions but already covered all the easy stuff, most of the intermediary stuff, and some of the hardish stuff that I am capable of. Another lecture over

Car colours are so shite, grey, silver, black, white, It's a big deal if you see a red one these days. Back to the job in hand. Looks like the 1.0 MPi AER engine does not have a crank sensor as previously mentioned, so that rules that one out and explains why nothing was showing on the wiring diagram. At least I dont have to do that job as it looked a real B'stard. Attached some images from the Motronic 9.0 training manual So Back to the list, that one can be crossed off. Dizzy Halls sensor, told if this is bad then you dont get a spark?Knock sensor. told cant be this?Lamda/O2 Sensor, can this cause a car not to start?EGR Valve, can this cause a car not to start?Relays?Corrupted Knackered ECU, Fuel is getting to all cylinders.All injectors, but fuel is getting through?Fuel pressure regulator, fuel is getting through? Throttle body? In my view, its between the distributor and the ECU? Tried again today. Put everything back together, still the same, trying and spluttering but just wont run. Had the same two fault codes come up on connecting the battery. Both cleared and didn't return after numerous attempts at starting so I disconnected the battery and they returned. So these faults just come up on disconnection/re connection of the battery then clear. So no faults showing Ahhhhhhhhhhh! Its looking like its going to the breakers soon, just do not have any more time to mess around with it. Problem is. I know if I take it to a garage, which it will have to be towed, then they will only do the same as I have only charge lots of money.

No, Its Factory 'Mali' orange. Think the colour was only around for a couple of years and even less on the Lupo (less than a year I read somewhere around 98-99). Only ever come across one Lupo in this colour arround 10 years ago. Minichamps even chose this colour for their model of the Arosa

Thanks, Its an AER. Looked at the PDF's of the VW training for the Bosch Motronic 9.0 and there is no mention of a crank sensor as in the wiring diagrams? Now I am confused as it must have one. Going to take a look tomorrow. Hope it will fix-up as its a great little low millage car in very good condition. The Ghia is a 71 with a 1600 twinport (as good as it got for original, 47bhp, 0-60 in 21 seconds, with a top speed of about 80 with the wind behind you, does around 25mpg) It's a matching numbers car with the original service book with dealer stamps in it up until 49,000 miles. Its now got 106,000 on which is believed genuine. Its my second, and I have owned this one for 6 years in January. It came over from California in the early 90's. I have this thing about Orange cars... Chris.

Thanks, Yes, the engine does have a crank position sensor? And, Yes, the failure characteristics are consistent with a crank position sensor?

Thanks, Interesting theory, but just doesn't match the failure characteristics. I know its a bit of an epic above, but as mentioned above the car ran great the week before whan started, then lumpy a week later when started again. In frustration I drenched the whole engine and electrical components in WD. This restored the engine to running and revving smoothly. Unfortunately, for only about five minutes then it was back to running on what feels like 3 cylinders. This then deteriorated to hardly running at all, it fires, and chugs away for a few seconds before stalling hence, I would tend to rule this one out as if the rings were stuck, then they would be stuck from the off (or as you mention, stuck from standing unused) rather than, not stuck, stuck, not stuck, then very stuck, if you know what I mean. This is where I am now. Its un-drivable as it doesn't really start properly and run for long and as mentioned there are no codes, its clear. The codes have all cleared and haven't come back hence I have no pointers. I have ordered a replacement gauge for my compression tester, when this comes I will test it again for valves rings and head gasket, but as mentioned they were all pretty consistent but low due to the dodgy gauge. If it where anything to do with valves and cylinders etc than In cant see them all failing to give an identical result across all 4 cylinders? Do AER engines have a crank sensor, I would assume that they would have to, but scouring the wiring diagrams in the Heynes manual for the Polo AER with fuel injection/engine management system Bosch Motronic 9.0, ther is no crank position sensor on the diagrams, yet the manual states for Polos 94 to 99 with AER engine codes? Also, I cam find lost of crank sensors listed that state they fit my Arosa 1.0 Mpi 1998. Would a failed/failing crank sensor be consistent with the above failure symptom characteristics, If not, any ideas what would? I would hate to scrap the thing as its in such good condition and may only have a well concealed £50.00 fix. Thanks again Chris.

Hello All,I have a 98' SEAT Arosa 1.0 with engine code AER. with 35,000 miles on the clock. It was a great runner until it was parked up at the side of the house 2 years and 8 months ago. I started it every 6 months or so and ran it for a while with no problems. The Saturday before last I decided to get it back on the road so jump started it and it started first time and settled down to tick over nicely for 20 mins or so until I turned it off. As the battery was knackered I ordered a new one that week (reasonable quality VARTA). This was fitted this weekend, unfortunately when I came to start it it was running really bad. like it was only on 3 cylinders. Instead of persisting I decided that the fuel was most probably past it, so I got hold of a new fuel filter, drained the tank and filled up with fresh fuel. The old fuel was the colour of Whiskey so it wasn't good.No change. still very lumpy. Checked the Dizy and all HT connections etc, Nothing obviously loose etc. Tried unplugging cylinder 1, this made no difference to the running, 2 and 3 caused the engine to stall, 4 also made no difference. All HT's seems to be arcing away strongly to the metal shrouds on all cylinders. Checked the plugs for damage and cleaned (looked really good actually) however, 1 and 4 were wet. Didn't have any spare plugs or leads so sprayed the whole area in WD40 to see what happened. started and ran beautifully, 5 mins then reverted to running badly.Tried the spay again, but still ran badly.Decided to compression test it just to clear up any concern about valves. Did this with a cheap AM-Tech unit which I know from testing my Ghia is not correct and it gave 85 psi across all cylinders which is very low, but that's the crappy gauge. the important thing was they were all identical. Checked the connections to the injectors for security etc. Tried to start again, but now would not start at all. Just the odd fire and backfire through the throttle. Checked the dizzy again and found it to be cracked. GREAT. ordered a new on. This arrived today. Fitted it, still the same. Wont start. Checked the leads and coil with my timing strobe and there is power traveling down the leads from the dizzy, so I guess the coil, dizzy and cap are ok so removed all the plugs and checked them for firing. They are all sparking, how well I am unsure but there is a blue spark present for all of them. All of the plugs except one from number 2 cylinder were wet and smelled of fuel. Number two is the one that is firing now and then, so was dry and sooty. So, fuel is present along with a spark.Borrowed Snap-on Solus Ultra scan tool -Initially it was displaying 6 fault codes -00533 Idle speed regulation control limit exceed.01087 Basic setting not performed, signal outside tolerances.00524 Knock sensor 1 (G16) open circuit/short with ground - intermittent.00537 O2 Sensor Regulation control limit exceeded - intermittent.00518 Throttle position sensor (G69) open circuit/short with power - intermittent.00530 Throttle position sensor (G88) open circuit /short with power - Intermittent.I then reset the fault codes and attempted to restart the engine.It then came up with only two fault codes -00533 Idle speed regulation control limit exceed.01087 Basic setting not performed, signal outside tolerances.Reset the service indicator and performed an instrumentation/ calibration check.Cleared the 2 codes above and tried one last time, came up with the same 2 codes on attempting to start.00533 Idle speed regulation control limit exceed.01087 Basic setting not performed, signal outside tolerances.The engine will just about start and run if you hold the throttle open. Sound/feels like its only running on 2 (or even 1 if that is possible) I have done a throttle body realignment and re-scanned the codes. No fault codes are now showing. It was originally 00533 Idle speed and 01087 basic settings not performed.Unfortunately, the car is still in the same state. No codes but will only try to fire on what sounds like one cylinder. No change?Tank full of fresh fuelFuel filter changedFuel pump operationalCompression test fineNo vacuum leaksSpark plugs are wet and smell of fuelSpark plugs sparkingCracked Distributor cap replacedNew Varta Battery, fully charged.No fault codes.Cant understand why last weekend it ran perfect for a bit after a dowsing in WD. May have been a coincidence as it didnt do it again, and wont now.A bit more in depth testing has drawn a blank -Then checked the HT leads (while connected to the cap to check the cap connection also).Plug leads -In order of length as numbered by VW on the OE leads -Coil to center terminal of dizzy = 2.11k Ohms4 = 5.48k Ohms3 = 5.94K Ohms2 = 5.74k Ohms1 = 5.83k OhmsIn theory they should get more residence as the length increases which is broadly right other than the exception of No 3.Flexing the leads whilst under test didn't cause any of the values to move or flicker.Checked one of my new Karmann Ghia leads (much thicker) and got 1.92K Ohms. Significantly lower, but doubtful this is the cause.The coil has a little fold down door to get at the concealed terminals. Using the 3 pin connector at the top gives a different (and out of spec) reading. Must be some additional circuitry between these terminals and the coil.So I have ran the tests -Bridging pos to neg = 0.07 Ohms - In spec (VW state 0.5 to 1.5 Ohms)Bridging pos to HT Output = 3.08k Ohms - In spec (VW State 2.5 to 4.0 K Ohms)So the coil is appears good and the ignition leads are reasonably good.Output to the coil 'in' connector fine (battery voltage).So here's where I am now -Halls sensor in Dizzy, I believe if these fail then you get no spark, so cant be this?Knock Sensor, everything I read says this wont stop the car from starting?ECU Corrupted/problem, timing?Spark Plugs, all in specification with no shorts when checked with multi-meterChecked for resistance, continuity, shorting etc, all ok1 = 4.91k ohms2 = 4.22k ohms3 = 4.21k ohms4 = 4.22k ohmsShould be between 4 and 6.5 depending on resistor so all good and no shorts.Timing jumped ?, if so why did it run for a period of time after being sprayed with WD. Checked this with cylinder 1 at TDC and the dizzy marl for cylinder No 1. Spot on. not timing.Loose wire, fuse rely, why does it try to start and fire on one or two?Fuel injection, plugs wet fuel getting in, but when. Fuel pressure, if this was defective wold it register on scanner, and still let fuel trough to cylinders?All engine earth points cleaned and reattached.So here's the latest list -New Battery (Varta) all fine here.New fuel and fuel filter, tank pump working.New distributor cap, all checked and measured to ensure center pick-up was in contact with rotor (found original to be cracked), also all leads on correct terminals (firing order).Connection from cap to plug leads checked with multi-meter.HT Leads all tested with timing strobe, also out of cylinder head with plugs producing a blue spark, and with multi-meter while flexing leads. All fine here.All pugs checked with multi-meter and correctly gapped at 1.0mm.Coil checked, LT and HT sides all in spec (also plugs firing).Timing checked. all good.No pipes off or split.All electrical connections taken apart, cleaned with connector cleaning spray.All engine earth points cleaned and reconnected.Scan using a Snap-on Solus Ultra - no fault codes now showing.Throttle body adapted.ECU removed and checked for water ingress etc(all good), connector blocks cleaned with electrical cleaning spray.Still wont start, fires and tries.Further things for consideration -Dizzy Halls sensor, told if this is bad then you dont get a spark?Knock sensor. told cant be this?Lamda/O2 Sensor, can this cause a car not to start?Crank sensor, can this cause a car not to start?EGR Valve, can this cause a car not to start?Relays?Corrupted Knackered ECU, Fuel is getting to all cylinders.All injectors?Fuel pressure regulator?The Engine No is AER201964 and the fuel injection/engine management sytem is Bosch Motronic 9.0 (which, looking at thw wiring diagram doesn't have a crank position sensor? Bit of an epic, but thats the way it is, the only thing I can think of is the ECU?Any suggestions on which order to tackle these ?