driveforward
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Posts posted by driveforward
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One Busy Weekend!
Well, to begin with the 'new' car received a decent exterior and interior clean which even included some clay-bar action to remove some engrained tree-sap from the roof (don't anyone say this car won't be loved!):
Note the gap between rear wheel and arch in this pic for later
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Firstly Mike, thanks for the excellent reply. It's given me plenty to think about and is just what I'm after
* Uprate brakes - Your thoughts?A lot of people will probably suggest a full replacement. Personally though I would stick to a new pad and disc only. You're going to be using this mainly for track days obviously so balance and progression is most definitely what you want. A massive set of brembos will look great and be stupidly powerful, but unless you uprate the rears as well, you'll be totally messing up the brake balance unless you go installing a brake bias valve and spend a weekend setting it up. You'll probably then find you have to shift the balance so far back, you achieve no extra braking ability. Remember that at the worst of times, the Arosa weighs around 900kg. Stripped out you're going to be looking at 800-700kg so the standard callipers and discs are easily up to the task. I would suggest getting some new fluid though. Get a high spec one to resist fade. Then get some softer discs and pads which should greatly increase power whilst retaining the balance. They won't last as long as standard, but then who cares if you're using it on track! The Lupo Cup cars (I studied them a fair bit when I was working for Big Thunder at Bruntingthorpe over the summer....they have a fleet of them) run standard sized discs and callipers so that kind of says it all. The installation of a brake bias valve may well be worth the effort though. Removing the weight from the car will probably mean it's a little lively at the back so you may want to bleed a little off the rears.
I'd never planned on fitting Brembo 4-pots as I know just how heavy they are! (I fitted them to my Cordoba TDI Coupe a few years back.. stopped on a sixpence, just VERY heavy!)
I was thinking more along the lines of doing the common 280mm brake upgrade. However, you make a good point as the brakes aren't bad out of the box.. I was planning on a fluid change (I even have 5.1 in my A2
) so will get that done along with new discs and pads all-round to begin with.I think this can be an item that's left until a later date - If I think they need sorting after a few trackdays, then I'll investigate further.
* Suspension - What's the general consensus?KWs are very nice. They give you the ultimate option to tune everything you want....bump, rebound, pre-load. You name it! It's great if you know what you're doing, but if you want to hop in and go, I'd perhaps suggest a decent quality set of springs and dampers from Bilstein or whoever. One other option is to get the standard shocks rebuilt by Leda. They do all the shocks for the Stock Hatch championship which require the use of standard parts, but they can give you new damping rates and stiffness's. They've done a Lupo Sport before, so they would probably be able to give you a good track setup with added adjustability. Big companies know what they're on about, and since you don't care about 'how low can you go', in many ways it's best to leave the big adjustability out of the equation since unless you've done car setup before or want to spend a few months learning about it, you could waste a lot of money on something that makes the car handle worse.
Agreed, minimising roll and 'stiffening the chassis' to make sure the car turns in and stays planted is what I'm looking for.
As for setup, I believe the Lupo cup cars run a touch more camber at the front (this can be adjusted on the hubs) and significantly stiffer rear springs than the front. They're incredibly lively at the back and when you turn in, the back basically just swings out straight away. You have to drive them with a touch of throttle almost all the time! Whether you can find out what spring/damper settings they have I don't know.On my Cordoba I ran more camber on the front and I think I'll do the same here. From what you say I'll probably have to be careful not to overdo it though as I want the car to be fun and not a handful
* BMC CDAYou see I'm always a little dubious about aftermarket air boxes. Standard intakes are actually pretty good, and changing them isn't really necessary unless you're planning on tuning the crap out of the engine (ie new cams etc, hence altered pressure waves in the intake) or going for forced induction. You'd be far better off IMO with a replacement panel filter from K&N or Green et al. That way you retain the resonance characteristics of the standard airbox that were designed to help the engines power and torque curves but gain a little more airflow due to a less restrictive filter. Of course, you could always take it out completely
I do agree that airbox/filter mods can be dubious and people often expect greater results than they provide. Although I've not fitted one to a NA car before, I know on my previous TDI's there is a noticeable difference when one is fitted. Given M1 Lupo's experience on his GTI, I think I'll give this one a shot - it'll probably be one of the more cheaper things I buy!
* Relocate battery to bootThey did this on the Lupo GTI, so I assume there is some method to this as I would guess it will help the rotational inertia (the usual reason for moving the battery around). Remember though that the GTI has ally front wings.
Indeed, my A2 also has the (HUGE) battery located in the boot - and it's entirely aluminium! The handling on the A2 is spot on (many people will laugh but I dare them to give an A2 a good rag around a track.. they'd change their preconceptions pretty quick!). Given they stuck the battery in the boot on the GTI and lightweight A2, I think this is a worthwhile mod given the rear of my Arosa will weigh nothing when it's stripped out. Lively: yes, Loose canon: no ta!
* Replace wheels with lightweight options - Any suggestions?Now this could be fun
We got some wheels for our Formula Student car from Keizer in America. They make custom alloys using the Ally spinning technique, and our 13in wheels weigh only 3kg each! They also do road/autocross wheels to order here where you specify offset, bolt pattern etc and they make up custom centres for you. I imagine at 15in they would be under 5kg. On the matter of size....stick with 15. That's what's standard (I asume the 15s were standard fit and not put on after?) and that's what the suspension geometry will be designed for. There are a whole load of really boring equations I could go into, but I won't. Basically though, if you go changing the wheel offset or size etc then you'll alter things like the steering feel making weird things happen and sometimes removing any feeling all together. The Keizers will probably be a bit too pricey really (ours worked out at $2000 shipped for 5), so a good lightweight OZ or similar should be fine.The wheels are standard as it's an 03 MY car, I'd probably be inclined to stick with 15's simply to allow for a future brake upgrade if needed. Valid point about keeping the wheels to the same offsets and sizes. I'll take a look at the available options but suggestions are welcome! (I'd like them to be anthracite/black though - save on the cleaning!)
You didn't mention changing the ARB. It might be worth looking into it after a bit of track time. You might find you don't need to change it, since it might loose you some mid corner grip if you stiffen it. Would be worth playing around with though.Good point, noted.
Obviously, take my suggestions how you like. Most of my ideas are based on experience from my engineering degree and from designing/running/driving Formula Student cars so I'm basing things on theory which may in reality be proved wrong by people who are very experienced with Lupos/VWs etc. I'm always of the opinion though that it's better to start off with what's standard and then take it from there. If you find that the brakes keep fading/aren't powerful enough then it's a lot less of a financial f**** up than if you spend £600 on new calipers and find them impossible to set up.Excellent advice mate, much appreciated!
Ian
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Yeah I know! Its me.
I can see that interior being completely stripped this weekend! You only need the dials, steering wheel and front seats right? Maybe a dashboard.
Indeedy, leave the dash, centre console, door cards and front seats. Everything else can go..
Remind me to do a vag-com fault scan too
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Friday night. Will limit the rum intake so I'm under the drink drive limit in the morning.
Haha..
OK, will give you a shout on Fri and sort things out.
BTW: see http://forums.clublupo.co.uk/index.php?sho...c=37383&hl=
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Cheers for the suggestions - keep 'em coming. I'll give them all a try later this week!
Hi Ian!Do you fancy Saturday or Sunday for the interior removal?
Depends on the weather mate, when do you need to know by?
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Saw no point in larger disks and calipers as the car isnt far off half its original weight. After speaking to the guys who built the cage (race prep company) they reasured me its money better spent else were.
Interesting point, with that in mind I'll leave that job till after I've had the car on track for the first time - see whether a brake upgrade is actually needed once the weight has been removed
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Howdy,
Having just collected my Arosa 16v project trackday car I need to get it insured with a suitable friendly insurer.. one who doesn't mind cars with no interiors and a full roll cage..
Can anyone recommend some companies worth contacting?
Thanks,
Ian
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Another racer project!
Real Arosa's need climbing frames.In a Terry Tibbs stylee RE:the cage... "talk to me"
Brakes: brembo discs and AP 551 fluid
suspension: KW Variant3s if you can stretch. If not V2s.
Wheels: Whatever you go for make sure you go no bigger than 14s.
Hehe
I've read your thread with much interest over recent months so please drop me a PM about the cage.. that's the first thing I need to get done, most other things can be done in my garage after that! Have you uprated your brakes to larger discs/calipers as well as replacing the OEM discs?
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Cheers guys, and welcome to Wooly my stalker with a fridge and a flat battery....
Wheels: Will do when I get around to it - they'll probably be the last thing I sort out though tbh.
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Hello all!
As I vowed to a mate on here (Dan, you know who you are!), my first post would be made once I had a suitable car sitting on my driveway.. well, as of last night I do!
Having previously owned an Arosa 16v Sport back in 2002 (my 'old' 02-reg car is still in the family and is actually parked next to my 'new' 52-reg one as I type!), I've been a long-time member of SEATCupra.Net (hello to the familiar faces on here!); and a long time lurker of ClubLupo
I've been longing to get another 1.4 16v as a track project for quite some time now, especially as I plan on having a monster year at the Nurburgring in 2008 and my daily driver (Audi A2 TDI Sport) has already done two trips and I've pushed it as far as I'd like to push things (under 10 minutes
)!So, here's my project for the Winter.. a 2002 (52) silver SEAT Arosa 16v Sport with 31K on the clock:
The Plan:
- Strip out interior
- Fit custom FIA spec weld-in cage - Recommendations?
- Uprate brakes - Your thoughts?
- Suspension - What's the general consensus?
- Manifold
- BMC CDA
- Buckets & Harnesses
- Bodywork bits and bobs
- Rear spoiler - (I know, but I like them)
- Relocate battery to boot
- Remove airbags and fit nice steering wheel
- Replace wheels with lightweight options - Any suggestions?
- Sell whatever I can off the car to save my kidneys..!
..Oh, and I'm hoping to make the first trip to the 'ring in the Arosa at Easter (end of March!), with a possible shakedown test early February at Cadwell Park
Yikes!
I appreciate all comments, thoughts and suggestions as I've been out of the Lupo/Arosa scene for a good few years now!
Ian
- Strip out interior
Arosa 1.4 16v Sport - My Trackday Project
in Member's Cars
Posted · Edited by driveforward
I was specifically looking for a MK2 given my plans for the beastie, plus I'm sure many of the parts will find good homes
As Dan already said, less of the ripping - this took an entire day, blood-sweat and toil in the freezing fog! Remember, this will not be a daily-driver, and I've spent many years harping on about doing a track project myself!
..and here they are!
Yup, today was D-Day for the interior.. We quickly got stuck in but uncovered several problematic items along the way. Nevertheless, a careful approach meant no damage was done to any of the items we removed
11am to 4pm was spent mostly:
Stripping out the interior..
First came out the front seats, then the rears. Then the boot lining and rear side trim. Then the centre console to enable us to remove the carpet and HEAVY sound deadening (we were both surprised just how heavy this matting was!). We then turned our attention to the headlining, which after some persuasion and difficulties with the sun-visors (!) it came out, only to reveal something neither of us expected. A dirty great patch of cardboard stuck to the roof with 15 times more glue than was necessary!
This was a right PITA and took ages to remove - taking great care not to damage the roof itself. Here's Dan still at it and a view of how stripped the interior got:
Then it was time to start putting things back in. By this time we were tired and cold, and it took about 30 minutes to get the centre console back in as we had to do it twice having forgot to put in a metal support (which was predictably only noticed once the whole lot had gone in and I turned around only to notice it lying where the rear seats used to be. Oh cock.)
We then cleaned up all the crud and dust in the rear:
..and did the same in the front:
Noting at this point all of the excessive glue still to be removed at a later date from the roof:
Finally, how much stuff did we remove?
And what effect did it have on the rear suspension? I now have a chelsea tractor:
So, there we have it, the work has begun. Next up I need to start ordering parts, although there are still a few things that need removing