Cage mod and sprayer

[Dblock]

I have a 1.4 Tdi.

I was thinking about doing the cage mod. Anyone done it?

Also my car has got high inlet temps. It shouldn't as I drive another 1.4 tdi and that has no problems. But one thing I noticed is air temp affects power massively. Now being a JDM lover I really like the Spray I/C button's on p1's etc.

I'm hoping I can solve my high inlet temp issue but then in summer and because I'm a chav I would like a intercooler spray button. Now I was thinking all I need is:

A button

A washer bottle that would fit in the engine bay

A cheap windscreen washer pump

some hose (for water)

2 windscreen washer nozzles.

I would then press the button on the dash which would activate the pump pulling from the washer bottle and spray through the 2 nozzles. Exactly the same way a windscreen washer would BUT this would be facing the intercooler and it would be separate from the one I wash my windows with.

From what I have read I'd need a ground, live and one for ignition? I'm not really sure as electronics isn't my strong point at all. If anyone could help me with what type of switch and pump I need and how I could wire it up that would be amazing!!!

Thanks guys

[mattarosa]

I'd take a switched live, to a switch through a fuse, something small, I can't see it drawing that much power,

Live from switch to pump.

and from pump to ground.

[Skezza]

DBlock, the cage mod being this 'grease up the MAF sensor plug'? I've seen plenty of people do it on Briskoda and stuff, all have good reviews so might be worth it definitely. You have to use dielectric grease.

For the sprayer, they make kits: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Intercooler-Water-Spray-Cooling-Spray-/251521237445?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item3a8fd581c5

or

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Universal-Intercooler-Water-Spray-Kit-/301196116730?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item4620b002fa

If you can get the bits for cheaper go for it, but I don't think that the first one is bad.

Regarding wiring, I'm not convinced you even need a permanent live unless you're wiring in a relay? The pump is just a pump, when powered it will pump. The switch will merely kill the power. If you wire that straight into your ignition, you can never leave it on and flatten your battery, not a problem. I guess the only reason why you might want it straight into permanent live is if the pump draws a lot of power, at which you'll need a relay. I would consider using a multimeter to check how much current the pump is drawing to be honest. I think most washer pumps draw about 2amps, however some draw 5amps and others draw just 1amp. If so, you could possibly patch into something else. Ghetto, but wouldn't take you more than a few hours to fit!!

How are you planning on spraying the intercooler? Where are you going to mount them?

[Dblock]

Cheers for the replys guys.

Yeah ordering some dielectric grease tonight.

Right ok. The only thing with that kit is if you zoom in you will see that once you turn it on it will just drip until ithe water is finished. It says it on the instructions.

Another reason for making my own kit would be to use my own nozzles. My windscreen washers on my clio where the normal kind but there was a mod where you could replace them for ones from some Citroen. The Citroen one had a fan type nozzle and would spray the windscreen with a much much finer mist meaning better cleaning and less water used. But I really need to have a look as the standard lupo style ones could be better if I was mounting the nozzles on the intercooler to spray over it rather than at it.

Il start listing some switches, pumps and relays so I can see which ones are suitable.

So where would I take the ignition from? Or would I be better with a live with a relay? I would never leave it on as it would empty quickly and kill the pump. But I don't want it draining power for nothing.

[Skezza]

Cheers for the replys guys.

Yeah ordering some dielectric grease tonight.

Right ok. The only thing with that kit is if you zoom in you will see that once you turn it on it will just drip until ithe water is finished. It says it on the instructions.

Another reason for making my own kit would be to use my own nozzles. My windscreen washers on my clio where the normal kind but there was a mod where you could replace them for ones from some Citroen. The Citroen one had a fan type nozzle and would spray the windscreen with a much much finer mist meaning better cleaning and less water used. But I really need to have a look as the standard lupo style ones could be better if I was mounting the nozzles on the intercooler to spray over it rather than at it.

Il start listing some switches, pumps and relays so I can see which ones are suitable.

So where would I take the ignition from? Or would I be better with a live with a relay? I would never leave it on as it would empty quickly and kill the pump. But I don't want it draining power for nothing.

Hmmm, thinking of what you could realistically tap into:

1. The windscreen washing pump? I assume that's 12v?

2. The coolant level sensor.

3. The fan is ignition live right? I know it stays on after you switch the ignition off but I'm guessing that's ECU controlled like many other 'ignition' live features on a Lupo.

Those all might require a relay mind.

[Dblock]

Is taking a live from a battery with relay harder? I don't want to mess anything up as I have no exeperiance with electronics.

[Skezza]

No, a relays like a switch... sort of. A standard automotive relay (not a special case like warning switch) works by taking an ignition live and uses it as a switch to provide a permanent live. Say you have a low current source, e.g. the coolant level sensor (no idea if it is, but might be). You can't draw current directly from it, because it messes with the sensor. You wire in a relay using that as your ignition live, and instead of drawing the current from there it draws the current from a permanent source so sort of like a switch. There are different kinds of relays though. That's the most basic.

A quick Google and I found this for you:

http://www.mp3car.com/the-faq-emporium/117895-faq-relays-how-they-work-and-how-to-wire-it-up.html

Might explain in better detail

[Dblock]

Cool cheers mate. Some night time reading for me there.

I'm also thinking a push button switch would be better than a toggle switch. As I'd blast it for a few seconds and that why I wouldnt leave it on.

Il have a look tonight and link some stuff on eBay so to see im on the right track.

[mattarosa]

If you google image it dblock there are some basic diagrams of how you would go about using a relay, either way it's a piece of piss to wire. The relay is probably the better option and a push button sounds better than a toggle, just for the reason you said.

[Dblock]

So a button like this?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12V-Black-Momentary-Push-Button-Car-Dashboard-Switch-Off-On-/251371042083?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Components_Supplies_ET&hash=item3a86e1b523

So the relay as I understand will be one wire to battery +ve, one wire to ground -ve, one to the switch and one to the ignition?

Is this the sort of relay I need?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PCB-Relay-SPDT-15A-DC-24V-125VAC-Contact-Cube-Sealed-Power-Switch-/400583012764?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Components_Supplies_ET&hash=item5d449bb19c

Regarding the pump should I get a bottle and pump like so

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Seat-Ibiza-MK2-1-0-ACP-Universal-Screen-Washer-Bottle-and-Pump-Kit-Trade-Price-/231245707537?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item35d7517911

or a pump and then find a bottle?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Windscreen-Washer-Pump-Universal-12v-Volts-12v-Qty-1-Windscreen-/320785960576?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item4ab0554e80

The pump and tank is cheap but I don't ideally want it breaking quickly either? But I suppose once it's plumbed up I will only need to change the top bits.

Sad I know but I'd imagine the cheap ones would have a spray pattern like this

But I could change the nozzles to have a smaller drops like so

[mattarosa]

The button is the right one, I can't open the relay one for some reason, and I'd get the tank and pump together that way you know they fit and you shouldn't have to drill any holes in the tank.

[Dblock]

That's a good point.

Just saw the switch has 2 connectors? One goes to the relay and the other ones goes where?

Also need to find a guide how to get the bottom little buttons out you know near the rear demister? I think thats a oem style place for it.

[mattarosa]

Earth probably, and the way I did it was get a small flat blade screwdriver, assuming you are right handed, push the rear demister in as far as it will go with your left index finger, then ease the screwdriver in behind one of the blanks,with you right hand, in the middle, it just pops off. Repeat for other side, the one on its own, using opposite hands

[Dblock]

Cheers mate! I wanted to drill a little hole mount it there then make the wire go from there to the relay which will be under the bonnet. I will need to find out how to do that too.

Useless when it comes to electronics me lol. But I'm learning at least.

[mattarosa]

There is a small rubber grommet near the top of the bulk head, top left behind the engine cover.

[Defcon5]

Dblock, your commitment and enthusiasm for a small diesel city car is commendable

[Dblock]

Cheers guys. Matt is that the same one most people use for power cables going to amps etc.

Cheers defcon. I'm one of those weird people who needs to make sure the car is running as good as it can for as little money. That's why I kinda love the arosa because it's so so so cheap to mod. Easy to work on and most of the mods are free or silly cheap.

[jonny s]

well worth fitting mod..... had fitted one on an old rs turbo i had yrs ago. worked perfick

[mattarosa]

No its not, it comes out above the pedals, I've used it to run my fog light cable through, I'll pm you a picture when I jump on the PC. But it gives you prey good access to the n/s of the engine bay.

[arosaSDI]

Instead of washer jets why not use a washer jet bar from a Scania r series truck, that will direct the water to were you need it. you get two in a pack and some pipe too

[mattarosa]

Suppose it all depends on space.

Edited June 1, 2014 by mattarosa

[Dblock]

Instead of washer jets why not use a washer jet bar from a Scania r series truck, that will direct the water to were you need it. you get two in a pack and some pipe too

Thats a good shout too. As said I just need to work out if they will go on top or facing the intercooler at an angle.

[Skezza]

So a button like this?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12V-Black-Momentary-Push-Button-Car-Dashboard-Switch-Off-On-/251371042083?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Components_Supplies_ET&hash=item3a86e1b523

So the relay as I understand will be one wire to battery +ve, one wire to ground -ve, one to the switch and one to the ignition?

Is this the sort of relay I need?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PCB-Relay-SPDT-15A-DC-24V-125VAC-Contact-Cube-Sealed-Power-Switch-/400583012764?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Components_Supplies_ET&hash=item5d449bb19c

Regarding the pump should I get a bottle and pump like so

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Seat-Ibiza-MK2-1-0-ACP-Universal-Screen-Washer-Bottle-and-Pump-Kit-Trade-Price-/231245707537?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item35d7517911

or a pump and then find a bottle?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Windscreen-Washer-Pump-Universal-12v-Volts-12v-Qty-1-Windscreen-/320785960576?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item4ab0554e80

The pump and tank is cheap but I don't ideally want it breaking quickly either? But I suppose once it's plumbed up I will only need to change the top bits.

Bloody hell, almost lost this post. Closed the window literally after writing the entire thing. Thank **** for the auto save feature

Dblock, that switch would be perfect, although I reckon one of these would look ace (19mm, Round Ring, Momentary Blue):

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12V-Black-Aluminum-Metal-Switch-Push-On-Start-Button-Latching-Momentary-16-19mm-/281131170886?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Components_Supplies_ET&var=&hash=item4174b93c46

Is that my Barry Boy side coming out? sorry, couldn't help myself. Definitely blue as well for the water spray The one you posted however is much easier to fit etc. You'll need an extra circuit I think for the blue LED ring, so yeah, practically, go for the black one.

That looks like a PCB relay to me, as opposed to an automotive one. Yes it would work, but they're not designed for automotive use. In my opinion, you want an automotive relay like this one:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12V-RELAY-4-PIN-AUTOMOTIVE-30AMP-RY1-CHANGEOVER-12-volt-Car-Van-Boat-Spotlight-/291093491463?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item43c6862f07

There are four or five pin relays in automotive use. In your instance, you want a four pin relay. The only reason you'd need a 5-pin relay, is if you want to merely switch the direction of current with ignition. You can still use a 5 pin relay in a 4 pin situation, there's just no point. You're over complicating it for yourself.

You might want to buy a relay base/socket as well, if you want a tidy installation (depends, neatness vs cost):

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pre-Wired-4-5-Pin-Relay-Mounting-Base-Socket-Holder-12V-24V-40A-/400620950393?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Components_Supplies_ET&hash=item5d46de9379

The only other reason you'd want a base is if the relay fails for some reason, you can quickly switch it. Personally, as far as I'm concerned this isn't necessary, they hardly ever fail. Plus you can just use spade connectors and go directly on the pins. You can't really lose with spades. They're cheap and it's still an easy job replacing the relay if it does fail Just maybe not as tidy.

This is what you need to know:

Pin 30: Constant Live direct from battery

Pin 85: Ground

Pin 86: To Switch (which you've wired to an ignition source)

Pin 87: To Pump

Now, regarding the pump this one is the only one I'm not sure about. I can see the attraction of having one unit though, pump and tank included. You know it's compatible, the pipe work is there, and really the only thing that can go wrong is the pump itself. I doubt the tank would crack or split, even in the coldest months, so all you need to keep an eye out for is the pump failing. I have no idea about scania bar sprayers or anything like that, however as the pump comes with nozzles, I'd be tempted to try them before anything else. They might surprise you.

Edited June 3, 2014 by Skezza