The truth about re-maps (1.4 TDI sport)

[CreosoteChris]

Hello, new owner here

So I bought myself a Lupo TDI sport, great condition, FSH blah blah...... and I'm loving it. I'm utterly astonished about how much fun it is to drive along a twisty road. I bought it for the great fuel economy - but I'm thinking wouldn't it be amazing if it had an extra 20HP? However, if that means the car loses that fuel economy, or requires playing tunes on the gearbox to get the extra performance, them I'm not really interested.

As an engineer by profession, I am someone who exercises a healthy degree of scepticism, and likes to see experimental proof, rather than a bunch of marketing blurb, and I'm wondering about the claims of the chip-sellers (extra 25HP + better torque / driveability + better fuel economy - all for £200) - is this anywhere close to the truth? If these sort of gains are really possible, then forking out for a re-map seems like a no-brainer decision.

Does anyone have credible real-world experience of this upgrade? From my enginner-sceptic's standpoint, it seems a bit too good to be true - and we all know that if it seems too good to be true, it probably isn't true. Comments?

Thanks

Chris 1.4 TDI Sport, Manchester UK

[Defcon5]

Proper remaps are tried, tested and proven.

Ebay resistors of justice are a load of crap, but I would hope you know that already.

Get in touch with Awesome GTI

[Thooooom]

'Superchips' make a remap that gives the 1.4TDI an extra 31 bhp, at a cost of £399. my moms boyfriend 'superchipped' his audi and it increases performance without affecting economy.

pricey though :/

[99hjhm]

Proper remaps are tried, tested and proven.

Ebay resistors of justice are a load of crap, but I would hope you know that already.

Get in touch with Awesome GTI

What he said.

[georgen]

The proper stuff works(remaps) the crap does not, its easy to get quite a bit of power out of turbo diesels, from an engineering point of view a manufacturer mass produces engines, manifolds etc, etc and all will fly through emision tests, why !!! because they have all being designed on the safe side and have tolerances, diesel fuelling is no different, I bet all modern diesels are under fuelled by about 15%, this way they are all going to pass an emission test, give the engine 10% more fuel alter its fuel pattern and boost its turbo will release a lot of power and will still pass an emission test, yes if you use the extra grunt to its limit you will see a decrease in economy, but since the main gains with turbo diesels is in torque the extra torque will move the car easier so will be quicker without hurting economy, after all its torque that moves an object not bhp.

George

[CreosoteChris]

Thanks for the replies - especially the interesting and thoughtful comments of georgen. I'm 48 years old, and no longer have inclination to rev it to the max in every gear - and the mid-range torque of the TDI Lupo, combined with light weight, is what really makes the car such a satisfying driving experience from my perspective. I don't need to rev it hard, or seriously stress the powerplant to enjoy it.

So this looks like a good option for me. Just bought the car, going on holiday in a week, so I need to get my spending under control and won't be actioning this for a while, but I think I'll do it.

Will let you know my impressions of the result

Thanks and regards, Chris

[north wales loop]

My brother just got his re-mapped by revo at edition-38 as they were offering half price maps.Think he paid just over £100, bargain!!!!! they claim it has boosted the bhp from the standard 75bhp to 108bhp.

He reckons it pulls way better all through the range and has gained a wee bit on the top end. Has also lost very little fuel economy so he is well chuffed with it.

[MrLuke]

If you're in Manchester then pop down to Awesome GTI or give them a phone call.. Great bunch of guys and they really know what they're talking about

[Deadmetal]

@NWL, I doubt they got 108bhp out of the 75 lump, unless the guy has breathing mods as well.

A good map shouldnt affect mpg, if anything they can increase it.

[Blitzerman]

When you remap an engine, your basically pushing it closer to the limit of what the engine can handle before things start to break, you could remap it to have say a 50bhp increase, but it will ensure your engine doenst last half as long!. manufacturers map the engine to get the best of both, yes you can map it to give better fuel and power, but it wont be as tried and tested as say the manufacturers method, they run engines for days, weeks, months at a time to ensure the engine is stable enough to take the map and last long so you dont return to them a week later complaining your engine has blown up. Personally id only remap a diesel, diesels can take a lot more stress and strain and would work well with a remap!. Petrols on the other hand. Nah.

The proper stuff works(remaps) the crap does not, its easy to get quite a bit of power out of turbo diesels, from an engineering point of view a manufacturer mass produces engines, manifolds etc, etc and all will fly through emision tests, why !!! because they have all being designed on the safe side and have tolerances, diesel fuelling is no different, I bet all modern diesels are under fuelled by about 15%, this way they are all going to pass an emission test, give the engine 10% more fuel alter its fuel pattern and boost its turbo will release a lot of power and will still pass an emission test, yes if you use the extra grunt to its limit you will see a decrease in economy, but since the main gains with turbo diesels is in torque the extra torque will move the car easier so will be quicker without hurting economy, after all its torque that moves an object not bhp.

George

Didnt read this before posting but yeah. What hes said is totally correct. They produce engines to pass tests and last years!.

[jon_273]

Well I still own a Lupo TDI, so here is my 2p.

I has a custom remap done to a totally standard car on a rolling road over 3 years and 33k miles ago. It really is a no brainer on the 1.4TDI if done properly; there is a shed load of extra power and torque to be had, and extra torque means more mpg, as you don't have to work it so hard to get the same performance.

The 1.4 TDi has a character of it's own - the power delivery is a lot more sudden than other diesel engines. It doesn't like or need high revs - there is no performance gain to be had going past 3700rpm in my experience. Because of the relatively limited rev range a remap isn't suddenly going to enable you to cruise down the motorway at silly speeds but it will keep up with most traffic up to 100mph. I find mine is great for overtaking 55-70mph and at it's best on NSL B roads! The extra torque means you can just stay in 4th gear and let the car do the work, with no fishing around in the gearbox like you would in a Lupo sport/GTI!

Reliability wise, mine has been spot on. In fact it is the rest of the car that is falling to bits around the engine. As you would with any car, take it easy until it warms up (which takes longer than the coolant gauge indicates) and try to change the oil every 6-7k miles. Always use PD oil which meets spec VW505.01. I make full use of the performance and once it's properly warmed up I don't worry about the reliability of the engine. The fact that you don't have to rev it high to get the performance out of it probably also helps reliability.

Regards fuel economy, realistically I get 5 mpg extra since the remap on everyday driving. I very rarely get less than 60mpg these days!

Here are my power and torque curves. Notice how strong the engine is around 3200rpm, it's getting on for a 45% increase over standard!

Do a google search of the forum, there is loads of good info floating about (and some not so good).

[north wales loop]

@NWL, I doubt they got 108bhp out of the 75 lump, unless the guy has breathing mods as well.

A good map shouldnt affect mpg, if anything they can increase it.

I did say that they CLAIMED it would boost it to 108

[Deadmetal]

And thats why I didnt say that the didnt/cant get that power.

I said I doubted it.

[Diesel madness]

I can confirm that a remap with fine tuning on a rolling road is a worthwhile investment. Had mine done 30,000+ miles ago and no problems. Standard turbo is only good for 100bhp ( I've been told the existing bearings are the weak point ) Totally agree about B road drivability. Only problem with power is you always want more. I am now the proud owner of a Turbo Dynamics hybrid turbo and a Jetex intake; will let you know what it does to performance once they are fitted and the engine remapped. Does anyone know how to run multiple maps on a TDi ?

[Diesel madness]

Have now installed a hybrid turbo with G17 compressor and modified turbine wheel.

Remapped today and frankly disappointed.

Turbo Dynamics said turbo only good for 1.5 bar. This gives 105 BHP and 187 lbf.ft torque.

It feels pretty nippy but not the improvement that I expected.

Not sure how to find another 10-20 BHP.

We could push the turbo but risk a mess. New exhaust may find another 1-2 BHP.

[cuky]

You need bigger injectors. It is pointless to run 1.5bar and not to have the fuel to compensate, my car has 130hp and I only need 1.3-1.4bar of boost because I'm running PD130 injectors.

[Diesel madness]

When remapping the engine we increased boost and then fueling until we started to produce quite a lot of smoke (with the existing injectors) so backed off to keep the same power and torque but with a more stoichiometric mixture. Therefore I don't believe my failure to get more power is due to lack of fuel. Maybe the standard exhaust system is a constraint or overall small size of the turbo is the main issue. It could just be that a car with 122,000 miles on it is not going to produce big power.

I must say that with the current set up its very good at accelerating out of roundabouts with the high torque although it does seem to be shredding the front tyres

[Diesel madness]

Looks like I need to eat humble pie. Found this on a US site:

Larger injectors are unique among the major power adders in that they inject a larger amount of fuel within the same amount of crankshaft rotation, and thus, for a given power delivery, they keep smoke and exhaust temperature to the minimum while also avoiding the increase in peak cylinder pressure caused by over-advanced start-of-injection timing. Given that the 110hp VW TDI engine is almost identical to the 90hp except for larger injectors, and that the 190hp "race TDI" developed by VW Motorsport uses even larger injectors but roughly the same injection timing and duration as stock, this method would appear to be the one favored by the engineers who develop the VW TDI. All injectors other than 0.216 look the same other than the part number, so the modification is invisible to the eye, and in the case of the 0.216 injectors, it takes a knowledgeable eye to spot a minor difference. This modification is transparent to electronic scan tools. Power gain will range from mild to wild depending on how big you go, but will be easily noticeable when driving the vehicle. All vehicle diagnostic and sensor-checking functions remain intact although the reported fuel delivery will no longer be accurate since the ECU has no way of knowing about the extra fuel being injected.

Any ideas on where to get a set of injectors ????

[CreosoteChris]

OK - just to get closure here and say thanks for the interesting andb thoughtful responses - I went along to Awesome GTI a few days ago and got a RevoTech remap with special offer SPS switch unit for £215..... by a long way the best-value car upgrade I've ever bought. The difference is astonishing - lots more power and torque, but in the real world that means driveability, particularly the wider spread of the powerband is a real pleasure to use.

I'm far too old to be a boy racer, and have no wish to improve my quarter-mile or lap times, but the everyday useability is just great. 15 years ago I had a Peugoet 205 GTI and my Lupo is now as quick as that, but without the need to give it 6000 revs in every gear, and with half the fuel consumption. Amazing.

I'm no longer engineer-sceptic, I'm a convert.

Regards Chris

[richardn]

I can confirm that a remap with fine tuning on a rolling road is a worthwhile investment. Had mine done 30,000+ miles ago and no problems. Standard turbo is only good for 100bhp ( I've been told the existing bearings are the weak point ) Totally agree about B road drivability. Only problem with power is you always want more. I am now the proud owner of a Turbo Dynamics hybrid turbo and a Jetex intake; will let you know what it does to performance once they are fitted and the engine remapped. Does anyone know how to run multiple maps on a TDi ?

do you have any pics of this?