Cooper_GTI Posted August 10, 2011 Report Share Posted August 10, 2011 Just wondering roughly how much i can expect to pay to rebuild a bottom end completely?As a guide, i will be doing the following:Main bearingsBig end bearingsLittle end bearingsNew pistons/rings along with machining of boresCrank sealsGasketsAlso, are there any simple and effective mods i can do while i'm down there, along the lines of:-Knife edge crank to help it rev easier-Lightweight pistons-Skim the block to raise compression-White metal bearings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty_82 Posted August 10, 2011 Report Share Posted August 10, 2011 Unless you are planning on raising the rev limiter and using tb's or charging/turboing it then there is probably no real need for expensive pistons and rods etc ,if its basically standard then just rebuild it that way maybe lightening a few bits along the way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooper_GTI Posted August 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2011 (edited) I plan on running it on injection, but it will be fitted with catcams and a ported/polished head, which will obviously be mapped, probably with a higher limiter to suit the cams, but certainly nothing like Vtec territory!Hoping for a good solid 150bhp.I'd just like to know what i should lighten/modify and how much it is likely to cost... Edited August 10, 2011 by Cooper_GTI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bikerz Posted August 10, 2011 Report Share Posted August 10, 2011 If your going new pistons anyway, thn bore the block (boring block will only cost you £100ish). I have no idea how much you can bore a 1.6 16v lump by tho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooper_GTI Posted August 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2011 I could probably bore it out to +2.0mm, as i'd imagine these pistons would be readily available, which will add a small amount of capacity, but not a fat lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CasperGTI Posted August 10, 2011 Report Share Posted August 10, 2011 Personally i wouldn't bother with the pistons. If you go lightweight it will affect the drivability no end, for the power you want it would be a waste of time.For example, i have pistons half the weight of the originals and a lightened crank/flywheel, yeah it is noticeably faster at responding, but if you load the alternator up too much you risk stalling the car. Especially the drain put on by the fan!Don't worry on the crank seals, if there not leaking then don't change them, they need a silly special tool to form. Cranks been out of mine 3 times and still no oil leaks.The walls between bores are fairly large, about 8-10mm iirc, which is a lot more than most french counterparts. You could overbore easily, and there are overbore pistons available off the shelf from VW up to +1.5mm, at something stupid like £400 plus vat. They won't be readily available from anywhere else id imagine, the GTi piston is odd with its small wrist pin and piston guided rod set up. Don't raise the compression to much with a higher lift cam, you will hit a piston! If you want to, id keep a good eye on EGT's especially with standard valves.iirc, bottom end bearing shells were something like £26 a pair. Bottom end bolts are normal machine bolts and are about £8 a set. I think the con rod bearings weren't too expensive.Id guess you won't see any change from £700 if you supply just an engine to them to rebuild.JohnJohn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lupogtiboy Posted August 10, 2011 Report Share Posted August 10, 2011 I've just had the piston rings done on my gti, set me back around £1400 with parts and labour, though that included a clutch change too.I haven't seen VW list any oversize pistons for the GTI, certainly none listed on ETKA, only the standard 76.5mm factory ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty_82 Posted August 10, 2011 Report Share Posted August 10, 2011 Ouch at a £1400 bill for rings and a clutch change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CasperGTI Posted August 11, 2011 Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 I've just had the piston rings done on my gti, set me back around £1400 with parts and labour, though that included a clutch change too.I haven't seen VW list any oversize pistons for the GTI, certainly none listed on ETKA, only the standard 76.5mm factory ones.You sure martin? I spoke to i think it was john at your place last year and he told me there were oversized ones available??I think aswell it talks about them being available in elsawin too, 1st and 2nd oversize they call it.John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooper_GTI Posted August 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 Well i'll be building the engine up myself, but obviously i cant machine the bores.I would like to think it wont cost me anywhere near £1400 to do! i cant see why it cost you that much mate. The parts would have only cost about £100!I suppose i could just change all the bearings and then just put new rings on the standard pistons to keep costs down. This should still give me an engine capable of another 100k miles!I'm just wondering if there are any other VW's that use the same type of piston, but are larger in diameter. Something like an ABF or a 20V n/a. Imagine if i could fit 86mm pistons from a 2.0L! We'd be well up on torque over standard, thats for sure!Thanks for the input anyway and i'll keep you updated with the build. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bikerz Posted August 11, 2011 Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 1.8T 20v motors are 81.5-83mm. I run 82.5mm on mine which is considered the max SAFE. Many do run 83mm but I call them loonies! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lupogtiboy Posted August 11, 2011 Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 You sure martin? I spoke to i think it was john at your place last year and he told me there were oversized ones available??I think aswell it talks about them being available in elsawin too, 1st and 2nd oversize they call it.JohnNone listed on ETKA!!! Only standard 76.5mm pistons are listed (036 107 065 AG) @ £127.76 each inc vat!Heres a list of parts I bought for my rebuild at RETAIL prices (I get staff rate!)Piston rings (x4 req) - £28.52 inc vat eachBig-end bolts (x8 req) - £4.86 inc vat eachSump sealant - £20.46 inc vatHead gasket - £33.89 inc vatHead bolts (x10 req) - £5.52 inc vat eachRocker Sealant - £53.15 inc vatRocker bolts (x11 req) - 60p inc vat eachRocker bolts (x4 req) - 71p inc vat eachcambelt kit - £151.20 inc vatwater pump - £35.94 inc vatThats £512.24 inc vat for parts alone! Plus I had a clutch, trhermostat housing and all new seals on all water outlets, so I don't think that I was overcharged or ripped-off. The guys who did the job also leant me a Vento VR6 for the duration of the rebuild, which other garages wouldn't do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lupogtiboy Posted August 11, 2011 Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 also to add that even after 117k miles, mine had no wear to either the bores or the big-end shells. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooper_GTI Posted August 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 also to add that even after 117k miles, mine had no wear to either the bores or the big-end shells.Why did you rebuild it? Were the oil scraper rings worn or something, or was it down on compression?Did it feel any quicker when you put new rings in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CasperGTI Posted August 11, 2011 Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 When I'm back at my parents next I'll pull out the bit o paper I had with the info on it. Mabe it was malhe that supply it? I'm sure I've seen them! And 4.50 for a m10 machine bolt??? WTF!! If your rebuilding yourself, I'd guess yo could do it for 500-600 without pistons, depends if your going genuine VW or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lupogtiboy Posted August 11, 2011 Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 Mine was using lots of oil, black spots on the bootlid, blue smoke ect...A compression check revealed that cylinder 3 had a higher compression than the rest, which all were the same. As soon as they squirted oil down the bore and checked the compression again, they all read the same. I have been told that the oil control ring was at fault as it was seating correctly on the piston, allowing oil to bypass it. Since having the engine done, she feels like new again. I did a run-in period with lots of over-run for around 1500 miles, then some fresh oil and a filter, and she's back to full power again, no black spots/oil usage. I'm looking for a new exhaust next as its had 18 months of oil running through it, so whilst well-coated inside, the outside is knackered, all the hangers are being held on with jubilee clips, and I'm 99% sure that the centre box baffles are shot too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lupogtiboy Posted August 11, 2011 Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 oh, and I mean seating INcorrectly in the above! The editor won't let me change anything! D'oh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defcon5 Posted August 11, 2011 Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 Had it always been fitted incorrectly then? Or moved somehow? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lupogtiboy Posted August 11, 2011 Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 wear and tear I guess! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooper_GTI Posted August 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 It's good to hear that everything was still in great shape after 117k. Goes to show that high mileage shouldnt put a downer on these little machines!I think i'll go with all new bearings and new rings (without rebore), as the cost of pistons is pretty insane! I pay £35 for a piston kit for my bike! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bickerton Posted August 11, 2011 Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 There's a place on heath road in nuneaton, thed do rebuilds and all associated work. They are who redid my head for me. They only charhed me trade on parts, and with labour it was still cheaper than me doing it myself.Name escapes me atm, will find out the receipt next time I get outta my chair Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bickerton Posted August 11, 2011 Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 IB engineering 293 Heath End RoadNuneatonCV10 7HQ02476 382465 Proper spit and sawdust kinda place Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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