Problems with the Police

[hunid-brake]

Ok so i was driving to work this morning, i was running late and stupidly broke the speed limit honestly by accident. These things happen. Ive never been done for speeding before so this was a real bummer. I got caught in a 50 (2 lanes in one direction and 1 the other) doing 70. Its excessive i know im sorry i genuinely just wasnt paying much attention to my speed and thats bad but the road was empty and it was 5:30am, this doesnt make it ok i know. Anyway Beema estate pulled me over, see i saw him as he zapped me with his hand held laser, not sure which one. As soon as i got out my car he came bowling over saying...

Officer: "Right! tell me whats illegal on your car"

Me: "Absolutely nothing ive declared everything to my insurer Adrian Flux"

Officer: "Whos H E Flux"

Me: "No its Adrian Flux they are a broker for modified car owners, my insurance is with them and ive declared every single modification" (Which i have )

He then went on and said my rear number plate was illegal as it had the the grey and black font, and its border wasnt legal and the message at the bottom wasnt legal, which he really didnt like as it says in small writing "I HATE SPEED CAMERAS" Anyway i apologised and said i followed the legal guidlines on a well known number plate website and did everything they said was legal, so its a genuine mistake and ill buy a new one. He said " I bet that exhaust is louder than the original one?" so i said "A little bit, nothing major" he then said "Thats not legal then as your not allowed to modify your exhaust or fit one to make it louder"

???????????

What?? Im pretty sure my exhaust is within the legal decibels, im not sure but does anyone else have a Janspeed cat back system on their Gti? Thats what i got. He said if he pulls me over again and its not rectified he'll do me. I mean WTF??

Im sketching out now. He said he could give me 6 points and court with possible 2 week ban as i was a high percentage over the limit. He said he wouldnt ( cus i was being very polite and co-operative) and said he'd give me 3 points and a £60 fine. I said cheers and left with a ticket. On the ticket it says the speed and limit so when i take it to the station with my counter part licence are they just gunna give me 6 points and court?

Also this officer was by himself, in his car with gun out window. I thought they legally had to stand outside the vehicle in a high vis jacket? Also i thought there needed to be 2 of them to validate the speed reading and outnumber me to convict? Can i contest this?

I will conclude by saying what a total t*t this copper was, he started ripping it into me, into "youngsters like me" instantly coming to a conclusion that i was a mental boy racer, and the final insult......on the ticket it said i was driving a POLO GTI!!!! Its not a fkn polo retard!!!

Your help would be appreciated people

Thank you

[99hjhm]

Did he show you how the speed was recorded?

[hunid-brake]

he tried to catch me at by pretending he didnt know how fast i was going, asked me so i said about 65, he said no and whipped out the concealed gun and showed me the screen saying 70. So im like great, he told me he got me from 368 meters or something, the gun is super accurate and gets calibrated or something, how often would have been more informative. And that was that.

[iTomKelly]

Surely if the ticket has the vehicle down as a polo GTi, you're in the clear? So much stuff gets thrown out of court for errors in police paperwork that if they got the car you were in wrong it wouldn't stand up would it?

[hunid-brake]

its a fair point but he wrote the number plate down. He never asked me what car it was, he just assumed it was a polo.

[hunid-brake]

anyone know if my exhaust is illegal? I know other people have the same system?

[marcusgrant]

of course the exhaust isn't illegal, what a load of tosh. if he pulls you over again and says that just be like, ok mate! get the ticket or whatever and appeal it

[GtiJames]

Sounds like he was trying to scare you, on a bit of a power trip. The exhaust thing is absolute **** especially.

But also I'd like to commend you on the fact that all of your mods are declared as I'd be willing to bet at least 75% of people with modified cars don't bother and it's really one of my "buttons"!

[hunid-brake]

cheers mate, yeah i declared absolutely everything, the cars cost me too much money and im not prepared to risk losing it through dodgy insurance, it just isnt worth it. I pay out the arse for them tho

[jabbles21]

You'll be alright about the exhaust, it's not true. And you know you shouldn't have been speeding whether you meant to or not, so the speeding ticket seems fair. Just do what you would do if he hadn't mentioned the exhaust and you'll be fine. And like Gtijames said, good stuff on the declared mods! Hopefully a few plebs on the forum will take this as a warning and get their act together!

Jake.

[Kent]

They should be able to provide a calibration certificate, but when he showed you the hand held gun if it didn't say Calibration Required or something similar on the screen it's been done. What were road conditions like was it raining/foggy. If so hand held cameras should not be used. I'm not sure if it can get thrown out for saying Polo GTI.. sounds like he was a bit of a to$$er to be honest. I've been pulled a few times on 'routine checks' and had some right assholes. GRR

[treblet]

They should be able to provide a calibration certificate, but when he showed you the hand held gun if it didn't say Calibration Required or something similar on the screen it's been done. What were road conditions like was it raining/foggy. If so hand held cameras should not be used. I'm not sure if it can get thrown out for saying Polo GTI.. sounds like he was a bit of a to$er to be honest. I've been pulled a few times on 'routine checks' and had some right assholes. GRR

I'd doubt they'll throw it out for it saying Polo GTI.

The fact is you've already admitted to him, a police officer that you were speeding, this counts for a lot in court as he's seen to have authority etc.

If he's captured it on the gun, taken down the colour, make and registration of the vehicle you were driving as well as all of your details then you won't have a leg to stand on in court.

[DarkStryder360]

on the ticket it said i was driving a POLO GTI!!!!

Honestly, this is the worst part of the story.

Where abouts you get pulled, in Liskeard?

[Defcon5]

11. The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986 (as amended) contain safety and environmental standards for the construction and use of all classes of vehicle. In terms of noise, the Regulations include drive-by noise limits and test procedures for new vehicles, and requirements for the design and use of vehicle horns, reversing and theft alarms. The use of a vehicle so as to cause excessive noise which could be avoided is also prohibited and any exhaust system must be maintained and not modified to cause additional noise

What is the ticket you have been given? Were you given a verbal NIP at the roadside? Why do you have to attend at the police station - have you been given a HORT1?

There is no need for there to be two of them (the speed gun provides the corroborating evidence) and ACPO guidelines state they should be visible, however there is no attached definition of what constitutes 'visible'

Dont bother trying to contest it on grounds of the clerical error - you will lose and the mags will hammer you

[Kent]

I'd doubt they'll throw it out for it saying Polo GTI.

The fact is you've already admitted to him, a police officer that you were speeding, this counts for a lot in court as he's seen to have authority etc.

If he's captured it on the gun, taken down the colour, make and registration of the vehicle you were driving as well as all of your details then you won't have a leg to stand on in court.

I wasn't sure, I agree with you now looking at it yeah. The only way I can see of getting out of it is if the gun should not have been used in the weather conditions or the calibration was out (you would have seen it when he showed you).

But in honesty, it's not worth fighting it considered you have admitted the offence. Next time, just be neglegent and say you weren't sure of your speed but don't believe you were over the limit or something. Ones you admit it, it's all over. I imagine how frustrating it is but I'd just take the 3 points and take a warning from it. Will cost you more fighting it really.

EDIT: Defcon - I thought that with them being 'visible' were only guidelines and used at discretion of officer but frowned upon? Not legal requirements.

Edited January 7, 2011 by Kent

[treblet]

11. The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986 (as amended) contain safety and environmental standards for the construction and use of all classes of vehicle. In terms of noise, the Regulations include drive-by noise limits and test procedures for new vehicles, and requirements for the design and use of vehicle horns, reversing and theft alarms. The use of a vehicle so as to cause excessive noise which could be avoided is also prohibited and any exhaust system must be maintained and not modified to cause additional noise

Personally I'd read that differently, the use of these words makes it a very grey area:

Regulations include drive-by noise limits

and

The use of a vehicle so as to cause excessive noise

This means that there are set decibel limits which you cannot breach, and anything deemed as excessive is prohibited.

The way I look at it is that the car has an exhaust system, the law doesn't say it must remain as the standard manufacturer exhaust system it says that you must not modify your exhaust system to cause additional noise, e.g. drilling holes in the back box etc. and that it must not exceed the noise limits.

[Defcon5]

I would consider replacing part of an exhaust system with a louder one to be modifying that system to cause additional noise.

There isnt a certain limit that it must be under - just that it must not be louder than the level it was type approved at by the EU. There is no upper limit that vehicles can be type approved at, only that a vehicle cannot be refused type approval on noise grounds a less than 73db. Got to love the EU!

[treblet]

If there is no upper limit then how do they deem something to be excessive?

That's a massive contradiction in one paragraph! Surely to be able to classify something as excessive there needs to be a level which is classified as acceptable for example an emissions test has a clear cut line between what is acceptable and what is excessive.

Something as subjective as noise should have a set level to be deemed excessive at. If not then you could just ask a deaf person for their view, I'm sure they'd say it was fine regardless of the decibels it's kicking out!

[Defcon5]

Exactly - there will be a million EU directives that overrule our own regulations, then another million amendments to previous directives.

In theory, you cannot make your exhaust louder than when it left the factory. In reality, its not an issue unless you are taking the piss. Who has noise meters? Police, no, MOT, no, VOSA, probably, but as there is no set limit as to what is illegal what are they going to compare it against?

In short, the Officer was right in what he was saying re the exhaust, but it was an empty threat.

You number plates on the other hand, are asking to be revoked by the DVLA!

[Clairey Fairy]

My exhaust sounds lovely

[Defcon5]

My exhaust sounds lovely

Tell that to the Judge

[rooco]

I must have been pulled over a hundred times in my 25 + years of driving (I had rally prepared Mk1 Escorts when I started driving - very noisy!), although not for a long time, as I'm an old git now. I have four rules 1. never admit to anything, 2. only answer specific questions with yes and no answers, i.e. don't give them too much information, 3. be polite 4. get out of the car and stand on the pavement waiting (takes their mind off looking too closely at the car, although I've never had a problem) and getting on with the reason they actually stopped you (speeding, power sliding around roundabouts and hand brake turns, usually! - those were the days !)

He was just trying to aggravate you !

[diesel2000]

4. get out of the car and stand on the pavement waiting (takes their mind off looking too closely at the car, although I've never had a problem) and getting on with the reason they actually stopped you (speeding, power sliding around roundabouts and hand brake turns, usually! - those were the days !)

I was told to do that years ago by a Copper, best piece of advice ive ever been given.

[Rudaz]

i hear all these stories about people being pulled over this and that, but i have to say i have been driving for 5 years and never been pulled over... lucky i guess, but its not like i dont get around and i have drove a decked A3 and then a decked GTI..

All my mods are declared on Adrian Flux and i drive the speed limit everywhere i go cos its just not worth it IMO but is it weird that i want to be pulled LOL just so i can be smug and have all my document in check

in regards to the topic hope it works out for ya pal

[j22drury]

your exhaust 'has to have' (supposedly) a triangular stmp which means that it is approved for road use. im a student police officer so i learn all sorts of traffic legislation but i have NEVER seen a traffic piggy on their hands and knees looking for a stamp

tbh if he has your numberplate details then the fact its a polo gti on paper doesnt matter, but from my witnessing of calibration guns, they are rarely calibrated, especially where im stationed as part of my course. never admit to speeding.

everyones a bit late now and then and no one has a gti car without breaking the speedlimit every now and then so its just unfortunate you were caught and that he was such a tool!!!