1.6 16V Lupo GTI Turbo engine In Progress... (MK4 Golf)

[Blackrat]

gees memory of an elephant eh ? if only i could remember where i left my fekin wallet !!

make sure you torque em right , and you should be safe to rev the 'hit out of the engine, get your flywheel lightend while you at it

hmpft i feel old now

[Tigz™]

hmpft i feel old now

What do you meen, only feel?

[veedubdude]

Well today saw the start of the major engine work! Ive managed to get everything ready for the block to come out tomorrow for when my mate arrives. The 8 gearbox to block bolts and then its onto the important part - stripping and rebuilding! So, this is how it went:

With a bit of luck I'll have pictures of the engine built back up with a first coat of red paint tomorrow night!

[Blackrat]

you gonna run the nitrous with the turbo ? nitrous and turbo go together real well, like hand in hand

[veedubdude]

It depends what the engine maps too, I will run nitrous eventually, but I dont want to stress the internals out too much! Plus I'll be running the standard 75bhp gearbox for now.......

Anyways, more pictures from today! Very productive day, and tonight the engine now has the new internals in! Need a few gaskets I forgot to get to fully build the engine back-up, but overall extremely pleased!

Cheers!

[veedubdude]

And another quick update - got the block masked and painted today! Still got a lot or prep work on the head and the gearbox before painting them so the whole things looks sweet, but here's how it went: (One thing I would say though, first I used spray-on high temperature paint from Halfords, after it turning out very dull I read the label and it turned out it was actually a matt finish! D'oh! So ended up painting the block by hand with some other high temperature engine stuff, and this has come out b-e-a-u-tiful, even if I say so myself )

Edited January 27, 2008 by veedubdude

[Blackrat]

is that paint gonna stick ?

couldnt you have found a brighter colour ?

[veedubdude]

Yeah the paint should stick no probs! It seems extremely well stuck on!

The photo's make it seem a lot brighter than it is, its a just plain shiny red!

[veedub1955]

Just a quick word of advice, dab a bit of engine oil on your con rod bolts before tightening

the threads can bind and give a wrong torque reading and could be 2 loose, oiling them

gets rid of this

[Blackrat]

Just a quick word of advice, dab a bit of engine oil on your con rod bolts before tightening

the threads can bind and give a wrong torque reading and could be 2 loose, oiling them

gets rid of this

i would double check that !!! ARP should give you the torque setting depending on what lube is used

[Blackrat]

[veedubdude]

Small update: nothing is really getting done at the moment due to the last few weeks of uni eating up my time! However, I have had a bit of an idea about mapping today. After talking to stealth racing, Ill need an additional plug-in module to control the MAP sensor and prevent the engine going into limp mode... on top of that, mapping is going to be a nightmare - well, if it goes the same as the last 1.4 turbo they did!

But talking to one of the chaps over on uk-mkivs awhile ago that has converted his 1.6 to a 4motion, the engine looms simply unplug and plug into the firewall/ECU for each engine... So, my plan is to lose the 1.4 loom, and run a 1.8 Turbo loom... along with ECU, and clocks... Which will also add a MAF sensor to the engine, and should prevent any problems, plus be a lot easier to map!

Other plan for now is to run the engine Ive built up with some cams if I can get hold of them, whilst building a new engine up with forged internals, diesel crank, etc etc with a custom manifold for a KO4, instead of the originally planned KO3... Basically go the whole hog instead of half way!

[Blackrat]

where you getting a diesel crank to fit ?

[one litre wonder ;)]

if your needing a K04 downpipe ive got one sitting ehre doing nothing i no longer need

[veedubdude]

where you getting a diesel crank to fit ?

Im not sure out of which engine, but I was specking to advanced autosport about internals etc. and he said the crank can be taken out of a diesel engine. If you're interested, talk to Erik there

OLW - Im not buying any of the major parts yet, as when the golf is back on the road I need to look at my polo before I start getting the bigger turbo stuff finished - Just out of interest how much do you want for it, and you got any pics? lol

[Tigz™]

Im not sure out of which engine, but I was specking to advanced autosport about internals etc. and he said the crank can be taken out of a diesel engine. If you're interested, talk to Erik there

He told me that also, I think it may have been the crank out of a N/A Diesal engine, but it was some time ago I have forgotten which engine it was.

[Blackrat]

i remember looking at the diesel crank dimentions and thinking damn thats a perfect fit ......

then the penny dropped ... the diesel crank is 3 cylinders .. duh so if you plan on welding on another journel i still dunno where you gonna get one

on the old skool vw engines that is possible , as the blocks are the same on the diesels

[Tigz™]

Isnt the 1.7 SDI a 4 cylinder?

[veedubdude]

The guy at advanced autosport has built race engines with whatever diesel crank that he is talking about, so it is possible somehow! The 1.7 is 4 cyl tigz you are correct; below is all the 4 cyl diesel engines available:

Four cylinder

60 hp 1.7 SDI

Configuration

Diesel 1716 cc inline 4

Block

79.5 bore * 86.4 mm stroke

Head

19.5 compression ratio, overhead cam and two valves per cylinder

Fuel

direct injection

Exhaust

catalytic converter, EU3 emissions

Output

44 kW (60 hp) @ 4200 rpm, 115 N·m @ 2200 rpm

Applications

VW Lupo, SEAT Arosa

64 hp 1.9L SDI (Non-Turbo)

This is a naturally aspirated version of the 1.9 TDI below

output

47 kW (64 hp) / 50 kW (68 hp) @ 4000 rpm, 125 N·m (92 lbf·ft) @ 1600-2800 rpm / 133 N·m (98 lbf·ft) @ 1800 rpm

applications

VW Golf, VW Polo, Škoda Fabia, SEAT León (discontinued)

75 hp 2.0L SDI

Configuration

1968 cc Wet sumped inline four

Head

aluminium, SOHC, 2 valves per cylinder, compression ratio 19:1

Block

cast iron, five main bearings block, 81 mm bore × 95.5 mm stroke

Fuel

multi point direct injection

Output

55 kW (75 hp) @ 4200 rpm, 140 N·m (103 lbf·ft) @ 2400 rpm

Applications

2003 VW Golf

90-160 hp 1.9 TDI

Volkswagen 1.4 TSI engine exploded view

0

The 1.9 TDI is the emblematic turbodiesel from volkswagen, which developed the notion of various ouputs of the same engine. In the Passat, the 90 hp was introduced in 1993, the 110 hp in 1996 and the first TDI with pump­jet direct injection in 1998 with 115 hp. The EA086 is built in Puebla, Mexico for North America. These have progressively been discontinued, and now only the new 105 hp version is used on new models, like the Golf V, the Jetta and the new Passat. See TDI

Configuration

1896 cc inline 4 cylinder

head

SOHC, aluminum, compression ratio 19.5:1

block

cast iron, bore 79.5 mm × stroke 95.5 mm

aspiration

turbocharger, cast aluminum intake manifold, bucket tappets

crankshaft

fracture-split forged steel connecting rods, one-piece cast camshaft

fuel system

DI fuel injection

output

66 kW (90 hp) @ 3750 rpm, 210 N·m (155 ft·lbf) @ 1900 rpm; VW Passat, VW Golf, VW Jetta and Jetta Wagon, and VW New Beetle (a pump injector version is still used in the Golf Plus and Touran)

81 kW (110 hp), 235 N·m (173 lbf·ft) @ 1900 rpm with a variable nozzle turbocharger (discontinued)

Pump injector versions (Pumpe-Düse), compression ratio 19.0:1

66 kW (90 hp) @ 4000 rpm, 240 N·m @ 1900 rpm; VW Sharan

74 kW (100 hp) @ 4000 rpm, 240 N·m (177 lbf·ft) @ 1800-2400 rpm (Bosch EDC 17); Golf, Jetta, Jetta Wagon, and New Beetle, Škoda Fabia (discontinued)

78 kW (105 hp) @ 4000 rpm, 250 N·m @ 1900 rpm; SEAT Altea, VW Golf V, VW New Passat, etc.

85 kW (115 hp) @ 4000 rpm, 285 N·m @ 1900 rpm (discontinued)

85 kW (115 hp) @ 4000 rpm, 310 N·m @ 1900 rpm; VW Sharan, Seat Alhambra, Ford Galaxy

96 kW (130 hp) @ 4000 rpm, 310 N·m @ 1900 rpm; VW Golf, Škoda Fabia, VW Polo Sport, VW Jetta, Audi A4, Audi A6

96 kW (130 hp) @ 4000 rpm, 285 N·m @ 1900 rpm; Audi A4, Skoda Superb ( engine for the gear box with 5 speeds )

110 kW (150 hp) @ 4000 rpm, 320 N·m @ 1900 rpm; VW Golf IV, SEAT León, VW Bora, etc. (discontinued)

118 kW (160 hp) @ 3750 rpm, 330 N·m @ 1900 rpm; Seat Ibiza Cupra

134-170 hp 2.0L TDI

This engine was made to replace the older fashioned higher-powered versions of the 1.9 TDI. It is the first DOHC 4-cylinder TDI engine made by Volkswagen. The lower-powered versions of the 1.9 TDI were replaced by the above mentioned new 105 hp version of the 1.9 TDI.

Configuration

inline 4 cylinder 1968 cm³ TDI

Head

4 valves per cylinder, DOHC, compression ratio 18.5:1

Fuel system

direct-injection pump/nozzle, piezo actuators valve, pressure up to 2,200 bar

Aspiration

switched induction manifold for turbulence control, turbocharged, intercooled

Engine management

Bosch EDC 16

exhaust

particulate filter

Output

100 kW (136 hp) @ 4000 rpm, 320 N·m @ 1750 to 2500 rpm

103 kW (140 hp) @ 4000 rpm, 335 N·m (247 lbf·ft) @ 1900 rpm

125 kW (170 hp) @ 4000 rpm, 350 N·m @ 1800 to 2500 rpm

Sources

GermanCarFans

Tuned

150 kW (204 hp)

Available on

VW Golf, VW Touran, VW Jetta, VW Passat and Passat Wagon since 2005

It would seem most likely the 1.7 crank, but I haven't worked the figures yet before anyone starts shouting its not!

[veedubdude]

Right, the AVY stroke is 86.9mm, so that puts the 1.7 SDi crank in the correct reagion. It gains the extra 0.1 litre with a slightly bigger bore by the looks of it.

The 1.7 SDi is AKU engine code btw.

Now the hunt is on to find one, to see if it actually fits.... lol

Edited April 3, 2008 by veedubdude

[Blackrat]

i cant be arsed to look for my catalogue , but when i looked at other lupo diesel engines none of them would fit ..

but you deffo onto a winner if that crank fits !! get one !!

[ArosaMike]

Will the big ends not be completely different? Diesel big end bearings have to be a lot bigger? Or were you planning on using diesel con rods too?

[veedubdude]

Well, a bit of an update; I decided to get my arse into gear last week and get the engine back in for spring fest, running without the turbo, but with the nitrous up and running instead. Unfortunately for me I managed to make an amateur (read: stupid) mistake. To cut it down:

Got everything back in... everything together, ready for the custom exhaust. Out of curiousity if it'd start I tried it; but it wouldnt start on just the 4-2 manifold, and after talking to a few garages it was agreed it was probably the backpressure; so I got the car on the transporter to MIJ performance for a full exhaust from 2 part mani back.

After its done... nothing, just popping alot of flames... bit gutted by this point, but because the injectors had been swapped out for bigger lupo GTi ones, it was assumed the mixture was completely out, and hence wouldnt start. Went up there and swapped the old injectors back in... Still nothing, apart from popping alot less flames.

They run the diagnostics and it comes back with a cam / crank sensor problem. They test the sensors but its not them, all readings appeared normal... They came to the conclusion that I'd managed to put the belt on 180 out, hence the flames etc. I couldn't understand how, as I knew all the markings lined up... That's when I suddenly realised I hadnt checked the pulley notches where the same on both cranks... Wasnt happy at such a stupid mistake so got the car home and inspected the timing belt... Physically measured TDC with a nice long screwdriver... everything spot on. Now by this time Im head scratching, and pretty gutted its still not starting... So since Id done the engine work myself, I start to check all the vitals needed for the engine to start... fuel/air, compression, spark, timing.

Plugs getting wet, and the compression was 185 - 190 on every cylinder. So its something to do with the spark, now with my engine running seperate coils I started to look at where the information for the spark timing was coming from... the cam / crank sensor. And thats when it hit me. In the minor 'rush' Id had the weekend before spring fest to get the engine bolted back in while a mate was here to help me, Id forgotten to set the oil seal/crank sensor wheel to the correct point to correlate with TDC. So the ECU is 'seeing' the cam/crank sensor is completely out of sequence and not letting it start; cutting fuel / spark.

Looked through the sensor hole while turning the engine, and the 'missing' tooth is sitting about 270 around the engine sequence. Which explains the flame popping, as it was igniting as it came up pushing the fuel out of the exhaust...

What an idiot, when I realised Sunday evening I was absolutely kicking myself! Ah well, you live/learn and I wont be doing that again! So the engine's got to come back out so I can line the crank sensor wheel up, and then #fingers crossed# she should be up and running, and ready to be remapped.

This is more for my own sake as I keep losing the sheet Ive written down with the spec on, but she'll be running:

Lupo GTi inlet mani, TB, injectors and fuel rail. Lupo GTi, balanced, lightened and knife edged crank. Original 1.4 flywheel, lighter than 1.6, and will be balanced. Lupo GTi rods and pistons. ARP big end bolts. Stainless steel 4-2 raceland manifold, with full stainless steel exhaust and bolt in/out decat/sports cat. Full custom remap. Blocked EGR valve. Approx. 30 shot of nitrous to start.

Im hoping for 130 after the remap, 160 with the nitrous.

Seen as Ive got to take everything out again, Im also going to invest in the gearbox fix kit, and a new sports clutch. I may also invest in some new cams seen as Im going to be running this engine N/A for now, but havent decided whether to or not yet! If I do Ill be looking for 150 without the nitrous after a full map!

Pics to follow...

[veedubdude]

Thought Id update this thread again - got the engine out again, and rebuilt it onto the new block! Now running cast iron (from a lupo GTi) instead of the standard aluminium! Also got some new cams in her from the lupo sport 1.4 100 bhp engine, so Im looking forward to seeing how these go compared to the older cams!

Anyway, waiting for the cam carrier sealant to set then I can time her up, and #hopefully# get her back in tonight! Alot more detailing work to be done, but this as she stands at the moment:

[dubsy]

looking good hope the cams run ok for you should see some improvement. I think there is about 4 lupos out there now running with different bits of my sport engine in them its great!