Guest ModdedCars Posted February 12, 2002 Report Share Posted February 12, 2002 Was looking at a post a while ago, kindly done by Axel, about current kits available for the GTi.I also noticed SK's post about how you didn't recommend having the lowering springs, because they catch on everything...Whats the best solution? Your GTi looks alot better chris now its a bit lower, but with all the problems your having...I also live in an area with ALOT of speed bumps...I once thought about Coilovers, but according to an article I read, they are VERY VERY hard, "with none, or very little, give at all" which sounds like a bid idea to me...Not sure what the best option is??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lupo TDI Posted February 12, 2002 Report Share Posted February 12, 2002 Hm...if it's just for styling purposes, then lower the beast style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /> But seriously: my coilovers are really hard, but I got used to it; and I got used also to the fact that I have to drive over speed bumps in 1st with no gas at all...because then, when you're outside the city, on a nice `B-Road`, hehe, you're the king style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /> So it depends what kind of driving you prefer.Bye! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shao_khan Posted February 12, 2002 Report Share Posted February 12, 2002 I have added some new shots to my site of the side of the car - can you tell the difference i.e bofore and after new springs?The other problem I have is that with the shorter springs the dampers are not quite man enough and you do occasionally hit the bump stops (or thats what it sounds like) when driving very hard.I would like to put adjustables or coilovers on the car but would want to raise the car just a few mm over what it is now, I don't want a bone jarring ride (bored of that now with past cars), but is what I would like is a bit more stiffness in the suspension - going to be a hard one to solve I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ModdedCars Posted February 12, 2002 Report Share Posted February 12, 2002 I think you want to avoid coilovers - your best bet is adjustables, because then you can adjust the stiffness and ride height, giving a compromise.And like you say, when you get to the shows, you can slam the ****** to the floor style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" /> however, if you adjust the ride height, do you have to get the wheels `re-tracked`? (I think I've asked this before)....and HOW do you adjust the height? Stiffness is done from the top of the strut, I believe....but how about the height?And Chris - there is a noticable difference, especially on the rear...which looks much better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shao_khan Posted February 12, 2002 Report Share Posted February 12, 2002 Well the Eibach springs were only £100 notes, so not like they break the bank - Once we get a meet sorted you can have a drive see what you think of the change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bAAx Posted February 13, 2002 Report Share Posted February 13, 2002 had a bit of a chat (after a bit of reserach) with the guy from the tyre/suspension shop.. that means i explained him the sensation i have of "underdamped" standard setup, giving oscillations of the car after hitting a little bump.. he reckoned the standard car IS already low for street use (i sort of figured that too style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad.gif" /> ) so the best would be shock replacement with a quality (and also `damping-adjustable`) item from eg bilstein or koni. this would then work well with the STANDARD springs (it think thats the Bilstein b6 sport damper youre looking at) to give you better ride quality over the whole spectrum of road driving you are likely to encouter.if you want more setup possibility theres the coilovers with adjustable ride height (for some) and damping setup by one manufacturer eg koni or bilstein (bilstein B12 or, with ride height adjustabiliy, the B14 BSS kit)or the combination of veryhigh quality dampers with very high quality lowering springs (like the `bilstein-eibach` combination)eg the combination of the B8 bilstein sprint shocks with a set of appropriate eibach springsso, depending on your need to lower your car (ie lowering the centre of gravity, thus getting better cornering stability), and if so, by how much (minima vary around 2 to 3 cm), and does it need to be adjustable, there are options, and if you want to keep ride height theres a good option too.... <>i took all examples from the bilstein catalogue as thats the stuff ive studied the most... if im gonna do an upgrade, is #### well gonna be the best possible style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />as always, well informed corrections on these "understandings" are more than welcome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ModdedCars Posted February 13, 2002 Report Share Posted February 13, 2002 Cheers axel, interesting stuff....I find it strange as to why the ABS sensors (whats EPS? Electronic.......System?) would need to be recalibrated, though.And I should image the camber angle would be made more negative when lowered - as far as I'm aware, the rears already run at a slight negative angle (with the fronts set neutral) to counter oversteer on the limit. However, I can't see this is a problem if the front and rears are lowered evenly. And liek you say, if I'm gonna do it, its gonna be bloody good stuff! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bAAx Posted February 13, 2002 Report Share Posted February 13, 2002 well, hehe, the thing about the camber and the ABS / EPS (thats tractioncontrol based on the same sensors as ABS, like mentioned in the last EVO) i didnt really check yet, but thought id mention it, never know where the trouble be coming from style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /> and to be prepared is free, isnt it style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lupo TDI Posted February 13, 2002 Report Share Posted February 13, 2002 Do you mean ESP? And don't forget that the brake power distribution between the front/rear axle has to be recalibrated too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ModdedCars Posted February 13, 2002 Report Share Posted February 13, 2002 Well it has lots of names - EDL (Electronic differential lock), EDS (E. Diff. System) amongst others...same stuff though.But why does the front/rear brake distribution need to be altered?Is it because the shift in weight under braking wont be so severe, thereby meaning the rear braking force can be increased? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bAAx Posted February 13, 2002 Report Share Posted February 13, 2002 oups... yup, ESPsay rudy, would you like to buy original `GTi-alloys` style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":o" border="0" alt="ohmy.gif" />))))just asking style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" /> style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /> style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" /> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bAAx Posted February 13, 2002 Report Share Posted February 13, 2002 all that `recalibration-crap` is freaking me outdont have the money for an upgrade anyways style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" /> not for the moment anyways Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lupo TDI Posted February 15, 2002 Report Share Posted February 15, 2002 Yeah, something about that, because your car doesn't nosedive that much now, after lowering and stiffening; so more brake force can be applied to the rear axle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ModdedCars Posted February 21, 2002 Report Share Posted February 21, 2002 ******!Heres me thinking about lowering, and I'm having trouble at the standard height....Caught the little black thing underneath the front valance on a kerb today...made a nasty noise....ouch style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":angry:" border="0" alt="mad.gif" /> And I also noticed that the guy/gal who owned it before me had troubles also - right at the bottom of the front valance, the front is scratched all the way along, just below the air intake. He obviously met up with a nice high kerb....crap, image the problems if you lowered it even 30mm??? Would look sweet though, with 16's too....Mmmmm... style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" /> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bAAx Posted February 22, 2002 Report Share Posted February 22, 2002 matt, you and looks.. style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" /> tsk tskhow can you like the looks of sumthing not functional style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" /> im sorry, being an engineer, i cant help being baffled seeing well engineered cars being "tuned" to shreds for aestetics' sake..that irrationality would be your female side then style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /> not that i have something agains female sides style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />anyway, had an enlightening chat with the fellow from ricksengineering, you know the one i mentioned.. www.multituning.be (might wanna check it out, also in english)...truely excellent chap, sent him an email inquiring what his suggestion would be for the lupo gti, the i called him just to check if the mail had arrived in good order, ended up spending about 45 mins on the phone discussing merits of lowering, changing dampers, refitting koni/bilstein dampers (!!!!!), chiptuning (definite nono for petrol driven cars according to the man), raising the compression of engines..etc etc.. oh boy i learned more in those 45 mins then the whole of the past year... this man worked 25 years in racing, street tuning and extreme lowering and rallys.. hes got the experience, yet hes very down to earth... you know the sort, very rare though these days, goes directly into the exact nitty gritty of things, goes to great lengths to explain minutely how things interact and how evrything is connected.. mentioned going to volkswagen to get approval from them if needed, recallibrating the electrical sensors that need recalibrating (theres only one incidentally, namely the load sensor for brakepower that needs to go to the rear wheel, loaded means more brakepower, and lowered would read as fully loaded, so youd get too much power to the rear brakes, which may be dangerous (chris!! you might wanna get this checked!!!)), both in the case of a lowering situation...anyway, im spilling the milk in a rather incoherent way, but its late now, ill try to sum up the more important things when im up to the typing again... but one thing, matt, to him the solution woulndt necessarily mean lowering the car (since, like you say, it already pretty low), his first hunch would be koni adjustable dampers, standard height, and maybe rework the internals of the dampers (i like his sense of perfection, can you tell..?) to lose body roll (but the trade in would be comfort, so beware!!), with our OEM springs. this way (ie with standard ride height retained), no changing of the wheel geometry would be needed, but an already much more stable ride would be assured!!imagine a standard looking lupo GTi, with subtle suspension tuneup like this kicking 172 or mini ass in the twisties style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />)))obviously, no mention of price yet.. style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /> ahemto be continued... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ModdedCars Posted February 22, 2002 Report Share Posted February 22, 2002 Chiptuning is a `no-no` for petrol engines? I know it makes very little difference, but still...And for me, drivability always comes above looks, but hell, have you seen a lowered Lupo on 16's? Beautiful! And as you say, fully adjustables are the best, because I think ones like the Koni can be lowered `0-50mm`, so you can retain the standard ride height.....but when GTI International rolls around, you can slam it to the floor style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /> sweet.Remember though, that if you have 16's, the car will sit a little higher, so you can lower it a little if you fit bigger wheels and it'll be at the same height as a standard Lupo.Suspension is the first thing on my list for the car....followed by BBS wheels......Not sure where to go on Tuning, I'm thinking about going for "just" a supercharger - 175bhp or there about, so you've got a 180bhp/ton car.....should be good for sub 6 seconds, which is about the fastest you'll get out of that car (that 300bhp Lupo could only manage 5.7 cause of traction)Anymore than 200bhp is definately a waste.....would give you some nice rolling road figures, though style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" />Does anyone do SuperChargers for the 1.6 16v yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shao_khan Posted February 22, 2002 Report Share Posted February 22, 2002 yep - the company I went to for my exhaust - just be prepared to wait........ and wait and wait and wait.I have seen some of their installs and the quality is top class, they are just very very very slow at doing it.THey reccon £3 - £4k min for a propper instal, and would give you a safe 50% increase. THey use mostly scandinavian equipement - higher quality than much of the US stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ModdedCars Posted February 22, 2002 Report Share Posted February 22, 2002 £`3-4k`??? I'd expect it to be Gold Plated for that much!!!NeuSpeed do a Supercharger for my mates Bora that he looked at, that was only $2300, excluding fitting.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shao_khan Posted February 23, 2002 Report Share Posted February 23, 2002 I think the main difference in price depends upon weather you want European Hardware or US Hardware. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shao_khan Posted February 27, 2002 Report Share Posted February 27, 2002 Just been quoted £625 +vat for H&R ride height adjustables for the Lupo this is spring and damper kit and £180+vat for fitting, tracking and allignment.Anyone know anything about H&R???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bAAx Posted February 27, 2002 Report Share Posted February 27, 2002 http://www.`hr-spezialfedern`.de/H&R should be one of the big players next to eibach (another spring specialist), and only to a degree bilstein and koni (more `shock-oriented`). i know several (most, all??) cupcars run on H&R SPRINGS, combined with bilstein shocks. for themselves they claim to be "Partner with: Team `AMG-Mercedes`, OPEL (OPC) and `ABT-Audi` in the DTM, PORSCHE in the `Super-Cup`, VW in the Lupo- and `Beetle-Cup`, RENAULT in the CLIO `V6-Cup`."this should give you a clue as to the credibility of their product... dont have any info of how a H&`R-only` coilover set works with the lupoGTi however... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bAAx Posted February 27, 2002 Report Share Posted February 27, 2002 just recieved a quote too, for B8 bilstein shocks (sprint) with a set of eibach springs that give a lowering of 2cm (not 3cm, as usual for eibach), fitting + camberadjust for the front wheels and possible brake sensor adjust for the rear wheels: 750 euros, that would be 457£,shocks cost: 117.50£ per front shock, 62£ per rear shock, and the set of springs would go for 153£this however, is from a company that will just order the crap and install it.. i had to suggest to the man that there would be a sensor to adjust coz he didnt know (or care methinks) about it... i have no quote or suggestion yet from the person i raved about recently, my "enlightened" professional.. style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" /> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ModdedCars Posted February 27, 2002 Report Share Posted February 27, 2002 QUOTE(bAAx)i had to suggest to the man that there would be a sensor to adjust coz he didnt know (or care methinks) about it...Hmm....that fills you full of confidence, doesn't it? style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shao_khan Posted February 27, 2002 Report Share Posted February 27, 2002 I have been asking around and everyone I have spoken with so far suggests that the Lupo ABS sensors are Speed related and not load related, so if you did something to cause differential speed between then you may have problems...... seems we have loads of varying oppinions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shao_khan Posted February 27, 2002 Report Share Posted February 27, 2002 Just chacked my email and the H&R kit is ride height adjustable but is not adjustable damping, but AMD reccon this would provide a suitable set up to cater for approx 190bhp on the Lupo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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