Adam K Posted February 16, 2006 Report Share Posted February 16, 2006 Would be interested to see the torque graphi have a graph. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
high on dirt Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 dub where abouts are they based? be interesting as i have been looking at getting a manifold, wanted a high flow cat too. Then super chipped. Maybe my exhaust will have to be replaced!!maybe we can set something up with them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
high on dirt Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 before they go up on ebay can i have one? Maybe come with you and get it fitted too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
high on dirt Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 i take it there will be a performance improvement for sure on these ones? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitchell Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 did we work out if he or his patner is in a wheelchairwtf is this all about style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":lol:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" />i personaly don't rate powerflow, some of the guys make good systems with the crap material they have. but no need for 6 pages on how bad they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
high on dirt Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 LOL i think he has left never to be seen again your right it didnt need 6 pages to say it but we have worked out that all everyone wants (here anyway) is a power increase. Ill put mine on the rolling road and see if its crap then ill hit powerflow with everything i can!And get a new one with dub-love Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junior Posted February 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 (edited) LOL i think he has left never to be seen again your right it didnt need 6 pages to say it but we have worked out that all everyone wants (here anyway) is a power increase. Ill put mine on the rolling road and see if its crap then ill hit powerflow with everything i can!And get a new one with dub-loveJust watching in amusement at all the opinions style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" /> Everyone has there own opinions & thats the way it should be. Some make valued statements, others talk total rubbish, but thats the way it goes.Bit like, if you have a Good Product, Built Badly.............it becomes a Bad Product....Simple style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":shades:" border="0" alt="shades.gif" /> And yes, I am a Partner in the Business & YES the other Guy is in a Wheelchair style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" /> Edited March 3, 2006 by Junior Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_chris1981 Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 The NEW branded POWERFLOW we use, which is 304 Grade, Tubing & Boxes, are great quality. Some Dealers choose NOT to use this, it's up to them.Bit like, if you have a Good Product, Built Badly.............it becomes a Bad Product....Simple style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":shades:" border="0" alt="shades.gif" />i think what was on my g40 had been made using bad materiels...and to be fair i think the guy that bought it just wanted noise.no offense to you junior, but i still probably wouldnt buy a system from you....but then i probably wouldnt buy a performance exhaust! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
high on dirt Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 Looking good i like it you can see the quality the welds are great thats a piece of art!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdwindustries Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 My Janspeed was incredibly good quality Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junior Posted February 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 I dont think it matters on bore size! its more to do with equal flow and back pressure, or so i understand?Peeps up for a meet in the bucks area!Check out events page, Nuff respect Aiiii!!!!!Reading this confirms my thoughts style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" /> So BORE SIZE is not important style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":wacko:" border="0" alt="wacko.gif" /> ?What do you think creates Back Pressure ?...................and here I was thinking it was Bore Size style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":blush:" border="0" alt="blush.gif" /> I would like to see a Scooby System, built with a 1.5" Bore - rather than 2.5 - 3". Glad you don't work for me style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" /> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigz™ Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 I would like to see a Scooby System, built with a 1.5" Bore - rather than 2.5 - 3". Glad you don't work for me style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" /> erm... why even bring in a Turbo car into the mix here?Its obvious a large bore system on a Turbo car is going to be an improvement.But whats to say a free flow large bore system is going to be an improvement on a N/A car?New cars these days have to be as efficient as possible, and that means spending countless hours working on the exhaust design.Id be very surprised if a guesstimate on the bore size without the use of a dyno made an overall improvement.(I'm not being argumentative here, I'm interested in the discussion.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junior Posted February 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 erm... why even bring in a Turbo car into the mix here?Its obvious a large bore system on a Turbo car is going to be an improvement.But whats to say a free flow large bore system is going to be an improvement on a N/A car?New cars these days have to be as efficient as possible, and that means spending countless hours working on the exhaust design.Id be very surprised if a guesstimate on the bore size without the use of a dyno made an overall improvement.(I'm not being argumentative here, I'm interested in the discussion.)Obviously you can run a Turbo in a slightly larger Bore Size. Most standard Vehicles, you run in the same Bore as the original system OR slighly larger. You can slow the gasses down, regarding Back Pressure, in the Rear Section. My point was & is, when someone spouts out all the rubbish they have been, then tells us that Bore Size DOES NOT matter in a Performance Exhaust, they don't have much of a clue.But then again...590BHP at the Wheels ? nearly as much as my F150 !erm... why even bring in a Turbo car into the mix here?Its obvious a large bore system on a Turbo car is going to be an improvement.But whats to say a free flow large bore system is going to be an improvement on a N/A car?New cars these days have to be as efficient as possible, and that means spending countless hours working on the exhaust design.Id be very surprised if a guesstimate on the bore size without the use of a dyno made an overall improvement.(I'm not being argumentative here, I'm interested in the discussion.)Another thing here, is that without a doubt, MANY Car Manufacturers will spend Millions on Engine Design & then not bother working on the Exhaust Systems, and I have heard this from manyof the Dealerships that we do work for. I also build 8000bhp Nitro Methane Powered Drag Race Engines & worked for March F1 Engineering for 7 Years, so have a rough idea.But, as I said before, EVERYONE has there own opinions, but should think before they speak....just to be safe ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junior Posted February 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 Wasnt the power loss due to the sensors before and after the cat making the car run lean when the cat was removed !You CANNOT remove a Cat & expect the Motor to run OK, if there is a Sensor, AFTER the Cat. The Sensor picks up the readings when the Gasses have passed through the Cat and sends them back to the Engine Managment System. If the CAT has been removed, it picks up a higher reading & thats where your issues start. If the Sensor is BEFORE the Cat, you can then remove it & no probs !But then again, I may be wrong style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":blush:" border="0" alt="blush.gif" /> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdwindustries Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 no one was arguing that.... we all agree removing the cat is stupid without doing something about sensors.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigz™ Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 Sorry for the excessive use of a quote, but this explains what Im trying to say, much better than I ever could.EXHAUST SYSTEMS 20 to 30 years ago the car manufacturers weren't particularly concerned with engine efficiency or getting very high power per litre. The easy way to make a car faster was just to put a bigger engine in it. Fuel was cheap, company car tax was low and it cost less to make a bigger engine than to do a lot of development work on a smaller one. As fuel prices started to bite and car tax bands made it a good idea to buy cars with smaller engines the pressure grew to increase engine efficiency. People wanted 1800cc engines to stay in a low tax bracket but didn't want to lose performance over the 2 litre car they used to drive. One of the areas where these older engines lost power was in the exhaust system. They tended to have cast iron manifolds with only single outlets and small diameter systems. The easiest way to make a system quiet is just to use very small pipework inside the silencer that strangles the flow even if it kills the power and fuel economy too. Nowadays manufacturers can't afford to throw away any spare power or fuel economy and modern exhaust systems are highly efficient "straight through" systems that silence due to good design and exhaust boxes properly packed with sound absorbent materials. Manifolds are still usually cast iron for durability but with longer runners and twin outlets that then lead into a long twin tubular downpipe. In essence it's a productionised version of the tubular 4-2-1 performance manifold. Copyright David Baker and Puma Race Engines So with old cars like Capris and Minis it was quite easy to add a good few bhp with a better exhaust system. Single outlet cast iron exhaust manifolds could be swapped for welded tubular systems and strangulated exhaust boxes got thrown away in favour of noisier but better flowing straight though ones. Nowadays there is hardly any power to be gained so the performance exhaust system industry has changed into one primarily of fashion rather than power. Twin tailpipes, 5 inch tailpipes, chrome tailpipes - it's all about looks and image rather than power. If your car looks as though it can go fast that's as important it seems nowadays as if it really can go fast although what the point of all that is continues to escape me. I want my own car to look standard so it doesn't attract the attention of police or insurance companies and go like stink when I nail the throttle. Having something that looks like a touring car and goes like a milk float seems awfully perverse or maybe I'm just getting old. So that's pretty much the story with modern engines. Non standard exhaust systems on an otherwise standard engine generally do very little - a few percent extra bhp at most. Several years ago one of the comics did a group test on 8 or so performance systems for our old friend above, the Peugeot 205 Gti. Every system cost at least twice as much as the standard one and the BEST of them gave 1 bhp LESS than standard. By the time an engine is really highly modified with say a big valve head and longer duration cam then the standard exhaust system might be getting a bit restrictive and a few percent power might be gained from changing it. One thing that really stops hot cams working properly is a poor exhaust system or manifold but it isn't until you get to rally spec cams and above that this usually becomes a major issue. A proper 4 branch tubular manifold and straight through silencers can pay handsome dividends here. On a standard engine though in most cases you're pretty much just a fashion victim if you change the standard pipework. Copyright David Baker and Puma Race Engines Beware also of magazine tests that don't use a brand new standard system in a back to back test with a performance system. Because that costs money they usually just test the car as it comes for the "before" power run. If the standard system is already 5 years old, nearly rusted away and with silencer boxes clogged full of carbon then of course the performance system shows a gain - but so would a brand new standard system. It's not just "performance" systems that can be a waste of money. Some of the aftermarket standard replacement systems can be pretty dire too. They might look similar on the outside to the OE system they are designed to replace but have poorly designed silencer boxes that kill the flow and power stone dead. Big bore systems can even hurt power quite a lot, especially at low rpm. I've fallen into that trap myself in my younger days. The OE manufacturers spend millions of pounds and several years in testing and development on their engines. The "performance" exhaust system manufacturers weld a few bits of tube together and spend a couple of grand on advertising. Who do you think has the best chance of getting it right?http://www.pumaracing.co.uk/gentune.htmBut, as I said before, EVERYONE has there own opinions, but should think before they speak....just to be safe ! I agree, thats why I had the issue with your claim at the start of the thread that an exhaust from you will give more power.Thats the type of comment Id expect to hear from Powerflow.You do seem to know what you are talking about, and know more about exhaust building than any one of us that has posted in the thread, I would just think tests should be done before claiming more power.The last two exhausts Ive had on my car were for looks, and sound.I never expected to improve the performance from either.The car on each exhaust (one almost straight through, and the Jetex I have now) was slower than standard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junior Posted February 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 (edited) Sorry for the excessive use of a quote, but this explains what Im trying to say, much better than I ever could.http://www.pumaracing.co.uk/gentune.htmI agree, thats why I had the issue with your claim at the start of the thread that an exhaust from you will give more power.Thats the type of comment Id expect to hear from Powerflow.You do seem to know what you are talking about, and know more about exhaust building than any one of us that has posted in the thread, I would just think tests should be done before claiming more power.The last two exhausts Ive had on my car were for looks, and sound.I never expected to improve the performance from either.The car on each exhaust (one almost straight through, and the Jetex I have now) was slower than standard.Funny enough, there was a MAXPOWER article done on POWERFLOW, SCORPION, MAGNEX, PECO, JANSPEED, LUCRE STAR & MAGNAFLOW, about 14 Months ago. They had a Golf GTI & had it fitted with each of the above Systems & Dyno'd. Powerflow came out on top & I know Powerflow used to have the article on the Website, but I think they have a new Website now, and it's not on there. I will speak to them & see if I can get a copy of it, so you can have a look.If you were close to us, i'd say, get your Car Dyno'd, then get it into us & I would build you a System, FOR COST & you can see for yourself. If you want to take a drive one Day, come & see us, it will be a pleasure.At least you seem to talk some sense !Just DON'T bring the Rub A Dub bloke with you ! Edited February 17, 2006 by Junior Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdwindustries Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 who is rub a dub dub!nice offer junior - see he wasnt a bad bloke after all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junior Posted February 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 Funny enough, there was a MAXPOWER article done on POWERFLOW, SCORPION, MAGNEX, PECO, JANSPEED, LUCRE STAR & MAGNAFLOW, about 14 Months ago. They had a Golf GTI & had it fitted with ecah of the above Systems & Dyno'd. Powerflow came out on top & I know Powerflow used to have the article on the Website, but I think they have a new Website now, and it's not on there. I will speak to them & see if I can get a copy of it, so you can have a look.If you were close to us, i'd say, get your Car Dyno'd, then get it into us & I would build you a System, FOR COST & you can see for yourself. If you want to take a drive one Day, come & see us, it will be a pleasure.At least you seem to talk some sense !Just DON'T bring the Rub A Dub bloke with you !One more thing, we don't really advertise much at all. On selected Forums, that we work with & thats it. I can say, about 85% of our Work, comes through Recomendations & Word Of Mouth. That, IS THE BEST way by far.We are building 6 Systems Per Day ( Average ) , 7 Days a Week, on ALL Vehicles, from Punto's to Skyline's, so I know we are getting it right.Good job really, as I got an EXPENSIVE Hobby style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />who is rub a dub dub!nice offer junior - see he wasnt a bad bloke after allDUB LOVE or whatever style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":wacko:" border="0" alt="wacko.gif" />One more thing, we don't really advertise much at all. On selected Forums, that we work with & thats it. I can say, about 85% of our Work, comes through Recomendations & Word Of Mouth. That, IS THE BEST way by far.We are building 6 Systems Per Day ( Average ) , 7 Days a Week, on ALL Vehicles, from Punto's to Skyline's, so I know we are getting it right.Good job really, as I got an EXPENSIVE Hobby style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />DUB LOVE or whatever style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":wacko:" border="0" alt="wacko.gif" />If you can tell me how to upload Pics, i got some INTERESTING one's ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdwindustries Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 Good job really, as I got an EXPENSIVE Hobby style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" /> style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":coffee:" border="0" alt="coffee.gif" /> a coke habit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigz™ Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 (edited) If you were close to us, i'd say, get your Car Dyno'd, then get it into us & I would build you a System, FOR COST & you can see for yourself. If you want to take a drive one Day, come & see us, it will be a pleasure.My cars not running yet, and will be a couple of years (at the rate Ive been going!) before Im ready for the exhaust.Would be intrested in seeing some results.We've still not seen a proven system as yet!If you can tell me how to upload Pics, i got some INTERESTING one's ? send them over and I'll host and post them Edited February 18, 2006 by Tigz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigz™ Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 border="0" class="linked-image" /> border="0" alt="IPB Image" /> border="0" class="linked-image" /> border="0" alt="IPB Image" /> border="0" class="linked-image" /> border="0" alt="IPB Image" /> border="0" class="linked-image" /> border="0" alt="IPB Image" /> border="0" class="linked-image" /> border="0" alt="IPB Image" />And now for the fun bit... border="0" class="linked-image" /> border="0" alt="IPB Image" /> border="0" class="linked-image" /> border="0" alt="IPB Image" /> border="0" class="linked-image" /> border="0" alt="IPB Image" /> border="0" class="linked-image" /> border="0" alt="IPB Image" /> border="0" class="linked-image" /> border="0" alt="IPB Image" /> border="0" class="linked-image" /> border="0" alt="IPB Image" /> border="0" class="linked-image" /> border="0" alt="IPB Image" /> border="0" class="linked-image" /> border="0" alt="IPB Image" /> style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":shades:" border="0" alt="shades.gif" /> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junior Posted February 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 First Pics are of some of our POWERFLOW Systems, built at TOPGEAR RACING in Aylesbury.The others are of my Race Cars: Nitro Methane Powered & Jet Powered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigz™ Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 The systems do look very good.Your race cars blow my mind.The Nitro really does it for me style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" /> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junior Posted February 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 The systems do look very good.Your race cars blow my mind.The Nitro really does it for me style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />See YOU at Santa Pod then style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" /> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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