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Lupo GTI ITB conversion.


LINCOLNSHIRESLUPOGTI
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The problem you have is you have an engine with electronic throttle.

On an older car (or one say with a cable throttle) you could flash the ECU nd build a map from scrap.

Then you could set the ECU to what you want.

Your 'Chip' alters the standard setting slightly, but only as much as the VW map allows.

You could start a new ECU system from scratch, but the time it would take in devolment time would make it cheaper, to pull out the VW wiring and ECU and go for an after market ECU.

Thats the only way your raising the limitter on your standard VW ECU.

Well with a new ecu i could do my job but it would cost me much. I dont think it worths it...

My car before chip with schrick cams , manifold , exhaust and induction kit, had 139,5hp and 163Nm.

I dont think i could gain much with an aftermarket ecu with this setup...

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It is possable to get a nice increase from the GTI engine, you just need to spend cash/time on certain things.

A filter wont give you much (if anything) as your throttle body is still the same size.

One of our members has got over 180bhp using the standard airbox and a enlarged throttle body.

In fact, hang on.

Im sure he raised his rev limit.

Let me check..

http://forums.clublupo.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=14894&hl=

Here you go.

Edited by Tigz
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Been to see the car again today. Mechanically...

everything is fitted now and finished. There are a few water hoses blanked (ie: old throttle body supply) but these will be changed once it is all working. Also the fuel pipes need routing slightly tidier.

Anyway the more exciting bit...it didnt start. sad.gif style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad.gif" /> sad.gif style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad.gif" /> sad.gif style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad.gif" />

Turn key and dash lights come on and electrics seem to be working. Fuel pump primed and then stopped, all ok still.

Turn key to position 3 and starter turns it over quickly, and then just keeps turning it over...nothing more.

Problem seems to be the injectors are not firing so no fuel to cylinders. This is as the ECU is not getting a signal from the crank sensor to indicate the engine is turning over so some more wiring checking to do tommorrow afternoon.

I was buzzing like hell when the starter whirred and turned it over, was expecting a big roar as it fired but nothing...doh!

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3 hours this afternoon and she started.

Problem was down to the injector pulse width being to short. They were only pulsing for 1ms which is not enough to barely open them let alone pump some fuel intot he cylinder. Got a pulse width of 4ms at moment and it runs.

Winds on starter for a few seconds then bursts into life with a big crackle. Idles sweet at 900rpm and will rev with up to about half throttle. Ran it for 30 minutes to leak test everything and also to test if temperature compensation was functioning.

Standard ecu is retained and all car funsctions work. Rev counter is working as well despite the worry it would not. Not checked speedo yet.

Stuck with EPC and check lights on but they will always be on as drive by wire is removed (EPC light saying it is malfunctioning) and also the VW ecu no longer controls throttle, spark or fuel...and the crank sensor (hall signal) is disconnected from VW ecu so it doesnt realise engine is running.

At tickover it gargles like a TVR and when revved (only a bit so far) it sounds amazing. Also pops and bangs on overun. Still got to be mapped so may lose some of these noises but hopefully not.

biggrin.gif style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" /> biggrin.gif style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" /> biggrin.gif style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" /> biggrin.gif style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" /> biggrin.gif style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" /> biggrin.gif style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" /> biggrin.gif style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" /> biggrin.gif style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" /> biggrin.gif style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" /> biggrin.gif style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" />

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I cannot wait to get the car back now, I was sat in it yesterday watching the dials and operting the throttle while watching the laptop settings and logging results. I could imagine myself driving along with this immense noise coming from in front of me. Hopefully only 5 more days then it should be coming home to be taken apart again and all the wiring and hoses tidied and a few extra bits added.

Reagrding the wiring Andi I could not begin to explain how it is done, there must be 500 wires hanging out at the moment. Not just on ECU either, there are 3 connectors in front of the distributor pack and these have also been tapped into. Also got a few new mini looms made, one for air inlet temperature compensation curve (to adjust the map depending on the days weather) and one for the throttle pot reading back to the ECU.

The best bet for the wiring has got to be an auto electrician, I would not attempt to do the wiring myself in any way as I did not have a clue what wires did what.

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Got my car back.

The wiring all looks factory and is covered in OEM VW convoluted tubing and run in neat lines with original looms.

Very linear power delivery right through rev range and also quite torquey. Will drive from 1000rpm in any gear with no problem.

Not thrashed it yet as making sure it is all ok but driven it a little hard. Will push you in the seat at 80mph and you have to hold the gear lever through first and second as it gets through the gears so fast.

The engine sounds mental, loudest throttle bodied car me or my mate have ever heard with a low down gargle turning to a high rev hard edged bark.

Car is still making power at the limiter of 7500rpm so with more revs will get loads more power but got to keep the engine safe so keeping revs to a sensible maximum.

The top end power is like:

149 bhp @6500rpm

152bhp @6750rpm

155bhp@7000rpm

158bhp@7250rpm

161bhp@7500rpm

Looks like it would make about 167bhp is let go to 8000rpm.

Losing about 7bhp from having standard manifold and cat in place.

Probably gain another 20bhp with head and cams so 190bhp is not unrealistic if I dare risk more revs.

I am happy for now though.

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If the snow has gone tommorrow pm I'll take a ride up wink.gif style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />

So please for you mate, cant wait to see it.

I'll bring the camera biggrin.gif style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" />

Cant wait to hear it!

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Tshirt2k

The figures are all from the dyno that was used during the three days of mapping.

Still got the EPC and CHECK lights on but only done 70miles in it so far so they may go off some time soon...probably not though!

Slightly worrying issue is the £15 of fuel getting me 70 miles. This will give me about 140 miles per tank of fuel...this is going to get expensive!

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Tshirt2k

The figures are all from the dyno that was used during the three days of mapping.

Still got the EPC and CHECK lights on but only done 70miles in it so far so they may go off some time soon...probably not though!

Slightly worrying issue is the £15 of fuel getting me 70 miles. This will give me about 140 miles per tank of fuel...this is going to get expensive!

brilliant darren - awesome mate - sounds like it has all been worth it - can't wait to hear the beast - 170 to a tank ouch! wink.gif style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" /> shades.gif style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":shades:" border="0" alt="shades.gif" />

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brilliant darren - awesome mate - sounds like it has all been worth it - can't wait to hear the beast - 170 to a tank ouch! wink.gif style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" /> shades.gif style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":shades:" border="0" alt="shades.gif" />

Dont worry with the consumption. I have mine GTI with no mods. When I brought the baby home I did 170 miles (approx. 250 km) on 1 full tank, full throttleing only 70-80% of the journey biggrin.gif style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" /> But had a lot of fun with it and a smile from ear to ear biggrin.gif style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" />

Congrat to the beast!!! Shame I dont live near by I could hear and experience it sad.gif style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad.gif" /> Must be georgeous!!!

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Got my car back.

The wiring all looks factory and is covered in OEM VW convoluted tubing and run in neat lines with original looms.

Very linear power delivery right through rev range and also quite torquey. Will drive from 1000rpm in any gear with no problem.

Not thrashed it yet as making sure it is all ok but driven it a little hard. Will push you in the seat at 80mph and you have to hold the gear lever through first and second as it gets through the gears so fast.

The engine sounds mental, loudest throttle bodied car me or my mate have ever heard with a low down gargle turning to a high rev hard edged bark.

Car is still making power at the limiter of 7500rpm so with more revs will get loads more power but got to keep the engine safe so keeping revs to a sensible maximum.

The top end power is like:

149 bhp @6500rpm

152bhp @6750rpm

155bhp@7000rpm

158bhp@7250rpm

161bhp@7500rpm

Looks like it would make about 167bhp is let go to 8000rpm.

Losing about 7bhp from having standard manifold and cat in place.

Probably gain another 20bhp with head and cams so 190bhp is not unrealistic if I dare risk more revs.

I am happy for now though.

Well can you resume the modifications you have made because i am a little confused?

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Its all in the thread mate.

Jenvey individual throttle bodies.

Custom inlet manifold

Motec ECU

And all the little bits required to make it work wink.gif style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />

Edited by Tigz
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I forgot to ask you on the phone Daz, did he end up needing an adjustable fuel pressure reg?

Standard Gti fuel rail and regulator (with the vacuum pipe removed as it is not needed). Standard injectors flow enough fuel (and believe me it is fuelling more than standard) the extra fuel coming from using a longer injector pulse width time.

Fitted new exhaust mount on middle section as it melted on rolling road session (no airflow under car so they got too hot) and been out for a proper drive. Best moment was the smug **** in the 330ci convertible. He had been following me right on my back bumper for 5 miles or so and we came on to a duel carriageway. I let him get along side then floored it in third and watched him drop back...he looked very angry when he pulled up along side me at the next set of traffic lights.

Oh and people turning around hundreds of metres up the road even when I am not trying...it truelly is that loud.

Andi

Does your camera do sound? We can do some in car sounds this week when I take you out in it and then put them on here maybe.

Edited by LINCOLNSHIRESLUPOGTI
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Good news on the fueling, will save me £20 biggrin.gif style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" />

Does your camera do sound? We can do some in car sounds this week when I take you out in it and then put them on here maybe.

I can do a video and convert it into a sound clip.

Although Im sure a couple of vids would be better shades.gif style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":shades:" border="0" alt="shades.gif" />

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LMAO. So... You were after a massive performance hike AND economy? You not ever realise that the two don't go together? wink.gif style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />

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Its all in the thread mate.

Jenvey individual throttle bodies.

Custom inlet manifold

Motec ECU

And all the little bits required to make it work wink.gif style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />

Well thanks i read the thread and i thought that i missed something. Great power without cams and head work.....

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Holy f**k!

You must be f**king great sport motor builders.

You have my RESPECT!!!

Well good luck to Tigz putting his babe together and to you LINCOLNSHIRESLUPOGTI many many miles with no problem.

Guys I am so sad that I dont live in UK or at least near by... just trying such an evil machine wink.gif style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" /> once in a lifetime. Or at least hearing that evil screaming... Oooohhhh it must feel like motor heaven!

I hope I will be able to download the videos including the sound biggrin.gif style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" />

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