zippy Posted July 12, 2005 Report Share Posted July 12, 2005 will be intersting to hear there response, I dont think they'll shrug this one off!<{POST_SNAPBACK}>Sadly I think they will.The mess of the car means it will be almost impossible to prove what parts broke at what stages of the accident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusoe Posted July 12, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2005 I have some of the other guys on the forum who have had theirs go at 20mph or on the track so it's not a one off though i won't hold my breath on a complete disclosure from them on the cases they know of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigz™ Posted July 12, 2005 Report Share Posted July 12, 2005 Remembering the fact that if they admitted to a product fault causing an accident, there would be a liability claime from your insurance.From the silly Golfs insurance, and your 'No win, no pay' adviser.I think your going to struggle to be honest mate, but good luck with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lunalupi Posted July 12, 2005 Report Share Posted July 12, 2005 Eeek style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":blink:" border="0" alt="blink.gif" /> Couldn't believe it at first when I read the first post. Like everyone else, I'm glad you're ok though, and good luck with getting Vauhaul to tell you what you need to know. Oh, and I just found this smily which seems sort of appropriate - style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":swerve:" border="0" alt="swerve.gif" /> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusoe Posted July 13, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2005 no progress yet, shoudl get the repair assement reprot later today hopefully, just filling in the claim forms (almost worse than having the accident in the first place) needing a whole additional page to describe what happened probably isn't a good thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jj10 Posted July 13, 2005 Report Share Posted July 13, 2005 What about the council thing...?Sorry to go all 'celebrity death match'If you can put your insurance company V the council or insurance V manufacturer, you could could sit back, blameless whille they scrap it out......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusoe Posted July 13, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2005 If you can put your insurance company V the council or insurance V manufacturer, you could could sit back, blameless whille they scrap it out.........<{POST_SNAPBACK}>be nice if it worked that way, tends to be more pay up your excess we'll give you something less than you want for your car and then you can go chasing anyone else you want for some compensation but don't hold your breath.still to submit my photos for the report, council stuff moves even slower than insurers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArosaMike Posted July 13, 2005 Report Share Posted July 13, 2005 (edited) It just occured to me, that it should be pretty obvious if something broke. For it to just break like that, it's highly likely that a crack had already started to form. From my lectures, a stress break is really easy to spot. About half of the crack in the component will have a sort of wave pattern accross it (looks a bit like the rings on a tree). It will also have a sort of polished look to it. The remainder will then be really grainy and the very edge of the metal may well still be attached. I doubt any part of the component would be bent either. It would just be a straight break.This diagram illustrates what I'm on about: border="0" class="linked-image" /> border="0" class="linked-image" />If the suspension failed in the accident then it would look totally different. For a start, for the wheel to be at that angle from hitting something, so the rim would be totally mashed up. Also....I would highly doubt that the actual metal link would break. It would be ripped out at the joint as that will be the weakest part. If any metal bits were damaged, then they would bend rather than break. Steel is really ductile so it doesn't just snap unless there are a tonne of cracks in it already or it's at about -200deg C!I would say it will be pretty easy to diagnose componenet failure. I'd hold out some hope if I were you style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /> Edited July 13, 2005 by ArosaMike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jj10 Posted July 13, 2005 Report Share Posted July 13, 2005 Oh, its just that from what i've heard, insurance firms would actually kill to avoid paying out.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusoe Posted July 13, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2005 don't worry mate, i'm an engineer so can spot a stress fracture in the metal. the ball joint tends to be the failure point judging form other people's experience though so it might not be so easy, it may also be that not all the parts are there is somethign broke off. The right rear was stil inflated and wheel was fine to look at so that seems to be the source though you would have to get it on a ramp to check the underside and back of the wheel. I've asked them to pay special attention to that area but the first person to look at it is only adding up the totals for what parts would be needed to repair it. Once they make the call on write off or repair i might get some transoprt and be able to go in for a look. Don't know if i'd want to fork out for my own engineers inspeciton unless i was sure they'd find what i wanted though and even then they might just claim that it did fail but that the large bump in the road was the cause which doesn't really change things. vauxhall might want to send one of their inspectors out to look at it, just have to wait and see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArosaMike Posted July 13, 2005 Report Share Posted July 13, 2005 (edited) LOL! Sorry style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":P" border="0" alt="tongue.gif" /> Yeah....the ball joint failing makes sense. Is it a rose joint? If so, would it be the bolt that failed? Considering the front wheel broke off at the hub it would suggest that they're weaker than the suspension so that alone should point to suspension failure at the rear.When you went over the bump did it just steer really sharply to the left? If it was a loss of grip the spin should have been faily progressive (if not impossible to catch). If it was the suspension it would just steer from the back almost on the spot. Also....if you watch somone spin (I don't know if you saw the cossie on the Gumball last year that span while overtaking) the car tends to go in a big arc and heads at 90deg to it's original path. If you then think to say that crash Mika Hakkinen had in his McLaren a few years ago at Hockenheim when his tyre blew up, it tends to spin a full 180 almost on the spot.I don't really see how they can accuse you of dangerous driving. If the road was clear and you weren't doing a crazy speed, it's just pure bad lack if you hit the bumps! Edited July 13, 2005 by ArosaMike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusoe Posted July 13, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2005 the slide/spin/direction change was completely uncatchable and no time to catch it or even react. The skid marks from memory showed a very thin mark (third tyre width) curving in about 2m from straight through 90 degrees whihc is a major turn at 70mpg. Suggests the tyre that left the mark was on it's edge and not rotating and the inside was probably wheelspinning though i'm no crash investigator. Shame the police that came out weren't traffic cops who could read the skid marks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArosaMike Posted July 13, 2005 Report Share Posted July 13, 2005 I would have thought they'll send someone out though, especially if they're thinking of prosecuting you. They need evidence to show that it was your driving error, so if they haven't analysed the marks on the road, it's your word against theirs.....although they weren't even there, so they couldn't prosecute you IMO! From how you explain things, I really feel it's some kind of failure. Road cars generally don't spin in a straight line very easily even if you do go over a bump. And anyway....if your right hand wheels took off....would the car not veer right? The left rear would still have traction so it would turn the car from that point. If you think about the rally, if they go over a big bump with one side of the car, it tends to be pulled over in that direction. It's hard to work it out in my head, but I'm pretty sure that's what happens. I'd need to try it out first tho! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusoe Posted July 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2005 yes, if the right wheel was off the ground the traction should have been on the left and spun the car the other way, they have confirmed that there is enough evidence to at least assign an engineer to inspect the rear suspension components so should find out if there was a failure though it may be inconclusive as to wheter it was the cause or part of the damage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoopy Posted July 14, 2005 Report Share Posted July 14, 2005 VX doesn't have an LSD.The wheel off the ground is the one that spins up, the one in contact with the tarmac loses all power.If the right wheel was off the ground, the car will be trying to twist to the left.Still don't think it would be enough to spin it though - I've had the wheels off the ground a couple of times without even a twitch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusoe Posted July 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2005 If i get home early enough i'll try to cycle out ther eand take some detailed pictures of the marks on the road if they are all still there. If a spinning wheel came back on the tarmack and started a skid you would expect a long skid mark that gradually turned and fishtailed out of control into a crash rather than a 90 degree turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusoe Posted July 15, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2005 got some pics last night, think Tigz will post them up when he gets his e-mail. There is a side on skid where the car would have been 90 degrees to the road which only shows one main tyre mark (suggesting the others were turning) and the angle and width seems to confirm that the wheel wasn't rotating and was canted over scrubbing allong the ground on a wide edge, the size 10 shoe in the pic gives the scale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusoe Posted July 15, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2005 (edited) border="0" class="linked-image" /> border="0" class="linked-image" /> border="0" class="linked-image" /> border="0" class="linked-image" /> Edited July 15, 2005 by Crusoe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusoe Posted July 15, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2005 wall doesn't look as bad as the car, one of my bosses posing with his hand in his pocket lol before anyone asks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigz™ Posted July 15, 2005 Report Share Posted July 15, 2005 Sorry mate. Just got home, so not seen the email till now.Have the insurance been to the spot to look at the road?Looks to me, that you'd have a case there.Its left a mark, before the car spun by the look of the pic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusoe Posted July 15, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2005 they haven't been out to look as far as i know but the car should tell the same story to the investigating engineer. No probs about the pics, found another site that worked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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