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Lupo 3L - reliable as a daily driver?


decvalts
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Wondering what people's thoughts are about running a 3L as a main car/daily driver? I've always kinda wanted one and there's potentially an opportunity to get one come up.

My worries are the scarcity of the non-standard parts - gearbox in particular, do they last high mileages (150k +?) Also a lot of the other components I've noticed are unusual or aluminium/Mg-based (struts/wishbones etc.) Anyone on here running one regularly, how d'you find it, maintenance wise? Very tempted by one, purely for the novelty of 90+ mpg, uniqueness of them, keeping one going etc. Any other things to consider (insurance issues with them being LHD etc)?

Anything in particular to look out for on a used one (aside from the usual Lupo things, thinking 3L specific here...)

 

 

Edited by decvalts
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The 3L gearbox isn't a DSG gearbox, it's a clutchless 085 5-speed gearbox with a tiptronic shifter mechanism.

DSG gearboxes have 2 clutches, one for even gears and one for odd gears, this gearbox has one clutch, it's a similar system now used on the Up! with a clutchless gearbox.

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2 hours ago, lupogtiboy said:

The 3L gearbox isn't a DSG gearbox, it's a clutchless 085 5-speed gearbox with a tiptronic shifter mechanism.

DSG gearboxes have 2 clutches, one for even gears and one for odd gears, this gearbox has one clutch, it's a similar system now used on the Up! with a clutchless gearbox.

Thank you for explaination!

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Yeah, like @lupogtiboy said, the 3L gearbox is a regular plain jane 085 thing with a regular clutch. 

The differences are that the clutch control and gear shifting is done by a computer controlled mechanism. When driving it, it changes gear just like a regular manual car, or at least sounds like it's being driven like a manual car. But perfectly. The first time you get in one, it's a wierd experience. The engine revs are also controlled at the same time when the gear shifts through neutral.

Oh, and the gear ratios are slightly different.

@RAB is our resident expert on the thing :)

 

Edited by mk2
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Unless you are very sure about the car's condition, I would avoid. Remember the seller is selling for a reason. Component costs of new hydraulic unit and gearbox actuator are now north of £2k each. Otherwise buy but be proactive with maintenance as otherwise it will become very expensive! You will need VCDS and a copy of Elsawin for maintenance.

RAB

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Unless you are very sure about the car's condition, I would avoid. Remember the seller is selling for a reason. Component costs of new hydraulic unit and gearbox actuator are now north of £2k each. Otherwise buy but be proactive with maintenance as otherwise it will become very expensive! You will need VCDS and a copy of Elsawin for maintenance.

RAB

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I would love a 3L but I think RAB sums it up. There's a lack of knowledge in the UK about them. You'll need to be very capable of 3L maintenance, whereas a plain jane TDI/SDI is more like your typical car.

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1 hour ago, ObjectiveAway said:

Might be therefore some make manual 3l’s after automatic gearbox failure. I have seen kits available.

I'm sure Rich has talked about this mod. If doable, it would be interesting to see what economy is achievable.

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If there were a way to run the 3L lump as a full manual throttle thing, with the original 3L map, I'd get one and convert it to RHD with a regular 3 pedal clutch system. There are so many scrapped Lupos out there with all the bits, it's a project just begging to be done. Basically a complete 3L, but with a manual gearbox. If you drove it well, you could still get 100km out of 3L of diesel.

I've asked the guys on the German Lupo forum and they don't know anyone who's done it. I love that engine. Such a cool design (even though the chain/tensioner needs replacing at 200k km like the regular TDI).

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It has been done but not to RHD. There's no RHD steering rack for a 3L. Why bother? There are as many pros and cons to either LHD or RHD with the exception of overtaking but if moving your head a few feet makes that much difference, it's probably not safe to anyway! It's lack of maintenance that makes running a standard 3L expensive. You have to be proactive!

RAB

 

 

 

 

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There's a couple of videos on YouTube of manual conversions of the 3L (all LHD ones) - e.g. this one and a couple of others

 and various others appear to have done it successfully. https://mhhauto.com/Thread-Lupo-3L-manual-shifter-conversion for example. 

 

Sounds like proactive maintenance is the way forward for the 3L (don't think the conversion is something I'd be likely to do personally - I'd prefer to keep it 'stock' with the Tiptronic shifter, even if it involved more maintenance).  Anyway, my 3L lead went a bit quiet once I started asking more questions about the car (it's been owned by someone on this forum previously, judging by the plate.) 

 

Edited by decvalts
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Yeah, seen those before. But they use the standard 1.4 AMF ecu, and you need to change the turbine. So not really a 3L original. One guy claims to have "de-automatic'd" the ecu, but i can't find any more info. May as well just go for a regular TDI.

@RAB, you're right. I'd not considered that unusual power steering rack. I wonder if any other VAG model ever came with a similar rack, but in a RHD flavour? 

Might be easier to just transplant the engine and "open" ecu into a tdi.

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The gearbox has it's own control unit, so you keep the 3L ECU. But I can't see the point. If you look after the units, they'll last a long time. If you want a manual, buy one!

There's also an unpowered steering rack. The powered steering column is similar to that on an Up!.

RAB

 

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I like the 1.2 direct injected PDI, variable turbo, all in an alloy block diesel engine. It's just about the holy grail of diesel engines. Tiny. Efficient. Powerful. A bit like the old 1.5L V8 petrol engines. Thinking about it, it'd also make a very compact but powerful inverter generator unit. Or potentially even an aircraft engine.

It won the international engine of the year prize. The very last small diesel engine ever to do so.

Edited by mk2
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  • 7 months later...
On 10/20/2021 at 4:25 PM, RAB said:

Unless you are very sure about the car's condition, I would avoid. Remember the seller is selling for a reason. Component costs of new hydraulic unit and gearbox actuator are now north of £2k each. Otherwise buy but be proactive with maintenance as otherwise it will become very expensive! You will need VCDS and a copy of Elsawin for maintenance.

RAB

Hi RAB....,

I'm just catching up on Lupo 3L posts, from which I gather you're normally involved with 'guru' levels of advice... If I can ask where you find best to source parts?

I've just got hold of a 3L model and understand self-sufficiency goes a long way...., and I've got plenty to learn👨‍🎓

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  • 1 year later...

To anyone wondering, LeatherTan's Lupo 3L is my old one! He knows that now! I sold it on to a VW/Audi specialist but they sold it on to someone else because they could not cure a smokey exhaust. The new owner then complained to me that fuel was diluting the engine oil. He then sold it to LT. LT or his mechanic found the problem: the connection to the injector loom had rubbed up against something and rubbed away all the insulation, even though this connection is covered by conduit! Well done LT and his mechanic.

RAB

 

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