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Same here... I picked up a spare front and rear recently from @Little tank , so I can rotate the frames between cars, then do one at a time. I need to completely strip it then take it down the local sand blasters. Ideally I'd dip galvanise them, but doing the inside channels is difficult.

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Does anyone know the correct front subframe installation and alignment method? Is there some sort of jig or measurement you need to follow? I've never done one on a Lupo before.

There's space to move it about quite a bit, and if you put it back in just a mm or two out, the car will be crabbing down the road and the camber on the front wheels will be completely wrong. It's made very accurately, to under 0.5mm I'd guess. The lower wishbones lock into those U shaped slots very precisely, ensuring the tracking is spot on even after changing components.

Before I start, I want to make sure that I get it right.... :)

 

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8 hours ago, mk2 said:

Does anyone know the correct front subframe installation and alignment method? Is there some sort of jig or measurement you need to follow? I've never done one on a Lupo before.

No I dont... but have an idea -

In the Mk5 world they have Dead set kits that counter the Alloy subframes creaking and to help keep alignment, they have collars to centre the bolt in the subframe top and bottom - they work very well.

They fit top and bottom of the subframe, bottom ones are a top hat that goes into bottom of subframe, top ones also have an inverted top hat section that goes into subframe and on top a shallow raised lip that aligns in the bolt opening in the chassis, they look like this:

subframe_collar_mk56.jpg

Both Lupo and Mk5 use M12 bolts, so the internal diameter will work, this just leaves the only size needing checking is the diameter of the openings in the subframe, front bolts should work, but not sure if a lower collar would work at the bottom of rear control arm bush, top one may need shortening.

Where to source: The premium kits are well over £200 for Tyrol sport complete with ARP bolts - complete overkill - enter cheap Aliexpress Chinese copies, as an example they do front and rear kits for the Mk5 landed in the UK for around £30, thats 20 collars that claim to be CNC'd and anodised, there are slight differences front and rear. front kit is for 6 bolts, maybe just a rear subframe kit with 4 bolts could work in a Lupo?

If interested I can check the Mk5 subframe opening sizes.

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I've got a mk5 golf and I got the alignment done at a place that does race cars. The bloke said to get the front really accurate he'd need to adjust the subframe. 

Maybe just bolt it all up and then go for an alignment straight away

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My gti has always had less caster on one side, I’ve moved the subframe forward on that side which has helped a tad, would be interested to see if something like this works

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I wouldn't have blasted that.

More damage done than needed to 90% of it.

Flapper wheel would have been the method of madness.

Then just paint over the clean good stuff.

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The question I guess, is, is (are) there a datum or reference point on the bodyshell? If there is, it wouldn't be too hard to measure between various points.  But which...? I know the car is on some sort of jig when it runs down the production line, so there must be some points/holes/notches/something (?) that they set up with.

@Rich, having someone blast the thing for you is soooo much easier. May cost a few pints, but saves all the effort. Plus, you know that the outer surface will be good for years. I don't think they ever used a primer under that cheap black chassis paint. But, mine completely rusted out from the inside....

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Found the pics of one of mine, in the 'before' fixed state. I never took any pics of 'after'... Considering that the steel is about 2mm thick, it makes me think that the inside of the subframes aren't coated with anything in production. They must start rusting the day they leave the production line.

IMG_1178.JPG

IMG_1179.JPG

 

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9 hours ago, Rich said:

I wouldn't have blasted that.

More damage done than needed to 90% of it.

 

Sandblasting is best for thick metal like subframe, you cant easy get rust out without blasting, sandblast damages less than 0,1mm of it. If you don't like sandblasting, try vapour/aqua blasting, its amazing how low pressure water can clean metal simply by runing trough sandblasting gun.

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It’s blasted with Garnet which is actually my surname.

i would been there for hours rubbing away or with a drill. 

They guy who did it was going to leave the good parts but he said the paint was so thin it came straight off so he just did the whole lot.

It now has a primer coat and two coats of POR which I tested is rock hard. 

 

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The rear mounting holes on the subframe are also the alignment holes. They are slack on the bolts but there is a recess on the shell that is the same diameter. I've a vague memory that it's a 16mm bore and the bolts are 12mm. You mount the subframe with the front bolts loose and align at the rear, then tighten everything. Here's the relevant pages from Elsawin.

subframe_refitting.pdf subframe_removal.pdf subframe_torque.pdf

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