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Spare Key Won't Start Lupo After Sitting Idle For A While


Pete0309
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My Lupo has been sat idle for ages, after a failed MOT, long enough for the battery to go flat.  Charged it up but couldn't find the usual key so tried the spare from the manual, but it wouldn't start the car.  Any ideas or solutions?

Edit: Car is a 54 plate if that helps.

Edited by Pete0309
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Immobiliser active. Key needs re-pairing with the car. The car doesn't recognise that spare key... you need to find the original key, or it'll be a case of get a new one from vdub. No easy way out.

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15 hours ago, mk2 said:

Immobiliser active. Key needs re-pairing with the car. The car doesn't recognise that spare key... you need to find the original key, or it'll be a case of get a new one from vdub. No easy way out.

Keep up to speed! http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/Immobilizer_III_Key_Matching_(Cluster)

You'll need VCDS.

RAB

 

 

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@RAB have you tried it? @Skezza and me and one or two others have had numerous attempts and have never succeeded. Don't know why, but I think Gtis (& 3L) are different to regular Lupos. I know the clusters are different. Even the automotive lock people I ask tell me they have to pull the dash to bits just to get the SKC. Usually costs about £75 to cut and program (pair) the key in, if aftermarket. If genuine VW, I believe the present cost is £120 + VAT per key.

I've managed no probs on Polos, Golfs, Boras and Passats, but never on my SDIs.

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Fun fact (i pretty sure I'm right here...). The little glass ID chip thing is the exact same as used for Pet IDs... they inject that down a big needle! I think a vet can read vw keys. Not helpful at all, but very slightly interesting. 🙄

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On 9/21/2020 at 10:41 PM, mk2 said:

Immobiliser active. Key needs re-pairing with the car. The car doesn't recognise that spare key... you need to find the original key, or it'll be a case of get a new one from vdub. No easy way out.

Immobilizer emulator is easy way out, coasts few dollars from china, takes a bit of work and understanding to install it, you will be able to start your car with slotted screwdriver afterwards.

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On 9/22/2020 at 3:27 PM, mk2 said:

@RAB have you tried it? @Skezza and me and one or two others have had numerous attempts and have never succeeded. Don't know why, but I think Gtis (& 3L) are different to regular Lupos. I know the clusters are different. Even the automotive lock people I ask tell me they have to pull the dash to bits just to get the SKC. Usually costs about £75 to cut and program (pair) the key in, if aftermarket. If genuine VW, I believe the present cost is £120 + VAT per key.

I've managed no probs on Polos, Golfs, Boras and Passats, but never on my SDIs.

I was able to on my SDI but my GTI is having none of it.

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Why do you think that happens? On some identical cars you can access the SKC, other's won't have any of it... It's been puzzling me too. I remember we had this discussion about 4 years ago. Never came to a conclusion. My SDIs all behave differently to each other. Almost as if they each have their own personality, which I know is nonsense. I just dunno. It's very odd.

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On 9/22/2020 at 3:27 PM, mk2 said:

@RAB have you tried it? @Skezza and me and one or two others have had numerous attempts and have never succeeded. Don't know why, but I think Gtis (& 3L) are different to regular Lupos. I know the clusters are different. Even the automotive lock people I ask tell me they have to pull the dash to bits just to get the SKC. Usually costs about £75 to cut and program (pair) the key in, if aftermarket. If genuine VW, I believe the present cost is £120 + VAT per key.

I've managed no probs on Polos, Golfs, Boras and Passats, but never on my SDIs.

You will need the SKU for Immobiliser Gen 2 (2000-2001) and Gen 3 (later Lupos). If you haven't got the SKU, you can recover it with Vag Commander usually (it works on all our cars except one, maybe because the ECU has been replaced, but I know the SKU anyway). VCDS won't recover the SKU. You need to add a zero to the SKU at the front. Details here:

http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/Immobilizer

It's been done many times on A2OC with VCDS. Lupo Gti and 3L won't be any different.

I ordered a new key for an Up yesterday (Gen 4). Cannot be done with VCDS. Cost £172 plus possible pairing cost!

RAB

 

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@Skezza has spent many hours on this subject, with lots of moral support from all. From memory, I think it has something to do with early and late Lupos having different security systems. I lose the will to live when I start going down the ID44 or ID48 rabbit hole, as there's so much conflicting info on the web. Also early and late clusters seem to have some effect on results.

I'll probably start on the subject again if I lose a key- one of my Lupos still only has just one key registered. I have a new metal copy and an ID chip. That's as far as I managed. I can program and remap ECUs, design emulators and mess with all the electronics. But Lupo security has me beat.

@RAB, that is just silly money. For a KEY!

Edited by mk2
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On 9/21/2020 at 2:58 AM, Pete0309 said:

My Lupo has been sat idle for ages, after a failed MOT, long enough for the battery to go flat.  Charged it up but couldn't find the usual key so tried the spare from the manual, but it wouldn't start the car.  Any ideas or solutions?

 

If your existing key is a remote, first check that it has a good battery. Then turn on ignition without starting and press lock and unlock a few times. That should re-synch your key without using VCDS.

RAB

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I've found someone on Ebay who can supply cut blades from a photograph. Note that PIN he requests is the key PIN, not the immobiliser PIN/SKU. The two are different.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VW-KEY-BLADE-FREE-CUT-TO-CODE-OR-PICTURE-FREE-POSTAGE/114395057226?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l264

RAB

Edited by RAB
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Yeah, that's the way I did it. Like £3 or something. But a brass not a steel "ate brand" key.

There are a few people who can do that, as each tumbler has 4 distinct positions if I remember correctly. So it's easy enough to simply reproduce a key from a pic. If you've ever dismantled a vdub lock barrel (to change that stupid horse shoe shaped lock ring, which snaps), you'll see it's like a digital code, where each bit has 4 values, each referenced to the lower edge. Also handy if you need to change all the barrels, and recode them. Don't show people pics of your keys!

So you can get into the car and unlock the steering column. But not drive it. It's the unpairing of the ID chip that causes the lock out, where the key symbol pops up on the cluster display. And then the ECU allows you to start the car and then it cuts out 2 seconds later. Hey, I just thought- I wonder if the ECU allows a rolling bump start, without using the starter motor??? You're running a different part of the software, possibly skipping the start sub routine. Something I need to try just out of curiosity. :)

 

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The problem is that nobody I've found will cut someone else's key. Yes, with a new key, all keys have to be paired with VCDS and the SKU. However, the OP's original key should still work as a manual key, even with a flat (key) battery. I very much doubt that an ECU will allow any useful start with an un-synched key.

RAB

Edited by RAB
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