Sarahs Lupo Posted October 9, 2019 Report Share Posted October 9, 2019 (edited) Hello! I am a new but old member, I just got myself a little run about lupo! I haven't been on this forum since 2008 when I bought my first one! Im going to start this off and keep it updated for the cars journey through my ownership. It's a 2004 1.7SDI. Perfect for daily workhorse life. I got it of a great family who had lost time and money trying to diagnose the faults. To kick things off, I wil upload a picture of the faults. Apparently it could need a new ECU but could be the relay 109 that I have been researching. The faults were cleared and came back each time. Any help appreciated! Edited March 4, 2021 by Sarahs Lupo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted October 10, 2019 Report Share Posted October 10, 2019 Trace wires and go from there. I bet if you fix one circuit then you fix all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mk2 Posted October 10, 2019 Report Share Posted October 10, 2019 100% not the ECU. Sounds like the B+ line supplying most of the engine loom. Which like you say comes via a relay, controlled by ignition relay and ig switch... you need to get in behind the fuse panel. Try swapping the relays first, or at least getting a multimeter out. Could be ig sw, which is also a common failure. pics please! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lupo 1.7sdi Posted October 10, 2019 Report Share Posted October 10, 2019 common to all errors (except N109) are: relay 109 and fuse 23 (5A) also check the ECU socket and injection pump socket Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarahs Lupo Posted October 12, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2019 On 10/10/2019 at 10:34 PM, mk2 said: 100% not the ECU. Sounds like the B+ line supplying most of the engine loom. Which like you say comes via a relay, controlled by ignition relay and ig switch... you need to get in behind the fuse panel. Try swapping the relays first, or at least getting a multimeter out. Could be ig sw, which is also a common failure. pics please! Ok so I got myself a multi meter, I have ordered a new relay just to be sure. I will also replace the fuse as above. Are there any guides to checking the connections with the multi meter. I have done many mechanical things on a car but never electricals. Thanks for the help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mk2 Posted October 12, 2019 Report Share Posted October 12, 2019 I generally use a multimeter on a car to check power volts (typically around 12.5v not running and 14.1 running) and continuity (beep function). If a circuit is meant to be powered, it's usually at 12 or 5v. Sensors generate an output between 1 to 4.5v. Anything else is suspect and can be caused by a dodgy contact or switch. Checking a wire is actually getting power through is best done by connecting a meter probe one end and at the other. So when there's power at point A, and nothing at B, you can check the wire using the beeper. No beep means a break. Also a good way to check for shorts between a wire that shouldn't be earthed and you might get an earth because of a break in insulation or something rubbing through. I guess the trick is to find where the power is coming from and work your way from the source. Battery to fuse panel, usually ok. So working from the fuse terminal to the next point along the chain, then a switch, then a relay, another switch and so on. So somewhere there might be a loose joint or a corroded contact preventing power getting through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skezza Posted October 12, 2019 Report Share Posted October 12, 2019 Does it actually run? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarahs Lupo Posted October 12, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2019 4 hours ago, mk2 said: I generally use a multimeter on a car to check power volts (typically around 12.5v not running and 14.1 running) and continuity (beep function). If a circuit is meant to be powered, it's usually at 12 or 5v. Sensors generate an output between 1 to 4.5v. Anything else is suspect and can be caused by a dodgy contact or switch. Checking a wire is actually getting power through is best done by connecting a meter probe one end and at the other. So when there's power at point A, and nothing at B, you can check the wire using the beeper. No beep means a break. Also a good way to check for shorts between a wire that shouldn't be earthed and you might get an earth because of a break in insulation or something rubbing through. I guess the trick is to find where the power is coming from and work your way from the source. Battery to fuse panel, usually ok. So working from the fuse terminal to the next point along the chain, then a switch, then a relay, another switch and so on. So somewhere there might be a loose joint or a corroded contact preventing power getting through. Ok so are you saying take out a relay, and stick the probes into the holes? Literally have no clue haha! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarahs Lupo Posted October 12, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2019 3 hours ago, Skezza said: Does it actually run? Oh yea. Apart from being very loud and 50% power, it's all great! The engine light has been on since I bought it and that was because of the faults. Literally just plugged in my OBD reader this morning and found some faults but I knew that, and cleared them. The engine light has gone out for now, but two faults remain. The engine is the same, loud and slow. That's the only issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mk2 Posted October 12, 2019 Report Share Posted October 12, 2019 Pull the egr vac hoses out... (and block the ends so they don't suck air in). That'll give you a smidge more power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarahs Lupo Posted October 12, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2019 3 minutes ago, mk2 said: Pull the egr vac hoses out... (and block the ends so they don't suck air in). That'll give you a smidge more power. Not sure I want to pull things apart to make it faster. I just want it to run 100% correct. I have a 3.0turbo for speed Just took it out and engine light is back on..so gonna get the codes again now. I'll replace the fuse as said above before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarahs Lupo Posted October 12, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2019 So just got back from a drive. Reset the codes but no change to the driveability. Same symptoms just no engine light. But I know it will be back. Scanned the car again and got the three codes as shown on the image. That's with the engine light out. I changed the fuse as mentioned but had no effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted October 12, 2019 Report Share Posted October 12, 2019 Find a common point. Rubbing under the battery tray? Earth points rusting out down there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarahs Lupo Posted October 12, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2019 15 minutes ago, Rich said: Find a common point. Rubbing under the battery tray? Earth points rusting out down there? I'll have a nosey tomorrow in the engine bay. The fuse box looked absolutely fine. All fuses looked normal and all pushed in lol. I'll have an inspect of the relay area tomorrow too. I'll keep this updated. Won't stop until it's found Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mk2 Posted October 12, 2019 Report Share Posted October 12, 2019 Yeah, the error message you get from the intake air temp says it. "High voltage". Means either the loom power rail or earth rail are loose or not connecting correctly. My hunch is still a relay, but could be ignition switch. Check the power voltage on the EGR solenoid connection. That may help, as it's easy to get to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarahs Lupo Posted October 12, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2019 1 hour ago, mk2 said: Yeah, the error message you get from the intake air temp says it. "High voltage". Means either the loom power rail or earth rail are loose or not connecting correctly. My hunch is still a relay, but could be ignition switch. Check the power voltage on the EGR solenoid connection. That may help, as it's easy to get to. I have the relay on order so awaiting delivery, for that. Im very new to these cars and electrics. I'll have to Google that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarahs Lupo Posted October 12, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2019 I have read about the firing order could be wrong? Can the wires to the injectors be around the wrong way. I had a similar situation when sticking HT leads in the wrong order??? Sound plausible? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mk2 Posted October 12, 2019 Report Share Posted October 12, 2019 Nah, you can't mess with injection sequence... all unmessable. Mechanical. The poor running is the injection timing pickup (inj no. 3) signal not getting through to the ECU. You'll see that that injector looks different to the others. It's a rather nifty way for the system to check and adjust the injection timing while it's running. If it doesn't get the signal, it locks the timing at somewhere around TDC. Same goes for the air temp sensor- it locks the air temp at probably 10c or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lupo 1.7sdi Posted October 13, 2019 Report Share Posted October 13, 2019 (edited) Below you have the wiring diagram and the configuration of the ECU socket AKU-Diagram.pdf For P0489 error If the specification is not obtain Check wiring between test box and connector for open circuit using current flow diagram. Contact 1+ socket 1 + 2 Contact 2+ socket 61 Wire resistance: max. 1.5 ω Additionally check wires for short to one another, to vehicle earth and to battery positive. Specification: ∞ω For P0216 error Remove injection pump socket (arrow) Check: For 0113 error Edited October 13, 2019 by lupo 1.7sdi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mk2 Posted October 13, 2019 Report Share Posted October 13, 2019 This is really great info! 👍🏻 Where did you find it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarahs Lupo Posted October 13, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2019 So the first test was stick it in the egr valve. Now this registerd 15.9 ohms. The second test of that apparently was 5V???? I'm not entirely happy I did it right, I stuck the red lead from my machine onto the contact 1, and the black lead from my machine at the battery bottom there's a bolt. That's where 5v got from with the ignition on??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarahs Lupo Posted October 13, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2019 So I think I did it right this time. 11.9v used the red on part 1 and the black on the negative for the battery? Used the setting below on my multi meter to also test the battery and it was 12.5v Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mk2 Posted October 13, 2019 Report Share Posted October 13, 2019 EGR valve sounds ok. You should see at least 11v on the plug to the EGR valve when it's operating. if you pop off the air pipe (fitted with the air temp sensor) between the air filter box and the EGR air choke valve, then start up, you should see the valve closed once it's idling (Make sure nothing gets sucked into it!). If you blip the throttle you should see it open then close again. If it stays open all the time, the EGR circuit to the valve isn't providing power to the choke solenoid. The choke valve operates using vacuum force/power (same as the EGR valve). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarahs Lupo Posted October 13, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2019 The pdf doesn't work. Not sure what to do with the second tests either 😭 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarahs Lupo Posted October 13, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2019 11 minutes ago, mk2 said: EGR valve sounds ok. You should see at least 11v on the plug to the EGR valve when it's operating. if you pop off the air pipe (fitted with the air temp sensor) between the air filter box and the EGR air choke valve, then start up, you should see the valve closed once it's idling (Make sure nothing gets sucked into it!). If you blip the throttle you should see it open then close again. If it stays open all the time, the EGR circuit to the valve isn't providing power to the choke solenoid. The choke valve operates using vacuum force/power (same as the EGR valve). I got a picture of my bay below. Not sure where the parts are your referring to. I know this is frustrating for you as it is for me! Haha! Are you able to give me a hand over what's app or similar? Gladly pay in beer tokens 😊 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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