Lupo gti at 17?

[MFletch1999]

Hey guys, i am nearly 17 and i am obviously looking for my first car. I have always loved Lupo GTI and was pleasantly suprised by the insurance  quote. Considering it was £1900. This was only £150 more than 1.4 TDI and 250 more than the 1.0 lupo.

what are your guys thoughts on this. I am not saying its cheap, but compared to say many other cars its soo cheap.

thanks for info in advance 

Edited February 26, 2016 by MFletch1999
Typo

[carrera-gt]

3 things to think about,

1/ Who is the insurance with ? will they pay out if you need them to ?

2/ Cost of a reasonable gti is 3 - 4K so 2 years premiums covers it.

3/ You will only get whatver the bottom book price is from the insurers so your 3 - 4K gti will only pay out limited amount, your probably paying more for the cover than they will pay out if you write it off.

[Sausage]

....

4/ Dont expect them to pay out or even cover you at all if you have done anything to the car that makes it non standard you havent previously told them about when making a claim.

tbh at 17 just get a cheap throw away banger and pass your test and have some NCD under your belt before wasting huge sums on insurance.

 

[RedVillan]

is it really wise to start off with the GTi get more experience in a smaller engine then move up to the GTI, when you get a GTi you WILL WANT to drive it FAST and with lack of experience it will only end in tears 

[MFletch1999]

19 minutes ago, RedVillan said:

is it really wise to start off with the GTi get more experience in a smaller engine then move up to the GTI, when you get a GTi you WILL WANT to drive it FAST and with lack of experience it will only end in tears 

I am not a idiot, this is the typical response by everyone. I just really want one because how nice it looks.

i am very sensible person ?

And i can't justify spending my hard earned cash on something i dont want

[Sausage]

That's also the typical response of a 17 year old.

You are the oldest you have ever been, we get that. Most of us look back at our 17 year old selves and wince at the stupidity we had then. But at the time no one could tell us anything and we knew best. 

I wasnt really much of a learner myself, i had my 1st car at 14 and completely stripped and rebuilt it. I went out in 6 inches of snow with my L plates on in my rear wheel drive car drifting and doing hand brake turns, i even managed 70 mph down hill in that snow. (very dumb for going that fast, doubly dumb for doing it in a 30 limit). 

As a teenager and into your early 20s you are statistically more likely to have an accident that is why your premiums are so silly. The young brain has a poor perception of danger and risk and is also prone to thrill seeking behaviours.

That in a GTI is just begging to be crashed as you will have limited driving experience and it will be more luck than judgement that prevents you killing yourself or others if you find yourself beyond the limits of grip available from your tyres or the road surface / conditions.

You'd be better off experiencing the limits of grip in a banger with skinny tyres because it happens at lower speeds so you have more time to react and correct it and if you stuff up and crash it will be going slower.

But you dont want an opinion you want justification so anything anyone says that doesnt agree with what you want will just be ignored I'm guessing.

It's your money and your short life, go waste it.

Edited February 27, 2016 by Sausage
spleelling

[Skezza]

Many years ago, a close friend of my old man passed his test in a small low powered car (as we all do) and was deciding what to drive as his first car. Against everyone's advice, he fancied a 2.5 litre Toyota Supra/Celica and went to a dealer to test drive one. 

He never made it back off the test drive.

These are high powered machines that can kill people. I know we all sound like old farts but we're not. I'm 25 and I'm telling you it's a bad idea to be sitting in a GTI at 17. I was a horrible driver at 17 and not because I was a very fast driver, I was just crap. I was arrogant and not particularly good.

Get a nice 1.0 or better yet an SDI. Get some easy no claims and then grab a GTI when your premiums come down.

Walk before you run.

[Bems]

Sorry fella. It's not what you want to hear we know but it's good advice. I came from a small town with Lots of disposable income (fishing & oil & gas) so when I was your age a lot of people I knew, some good friends could afford flash/high powered cars. A lot of these guys & girls are unfortunately no longer with us for that very reason. I myself had a 1.3sr nova as my first car & have to say I've been lucky because I did some bloody stupid things in that car. If I was in your position, like others have suggested buy a nice low powered car & spend some money on driver tuition on track etc. I cannot express enough how much you will benefit from this. A year down the line buy that gti!  Again this is not what I'd want to hear at 17 but if you did take our advice I have no doubt that you'll be in a far better position than some of your friends a few years down the line

Edited February 27, 2016 by Bems

[Skezza]

Bems is spot on. We know it's not what you want to hear. We know you're probably sat there thinking "patronizing ****s" but we're genuinely speaking from experience. I didn't even think to mention those who I went school with and had accidents in powerful cars, and there were a fair few. Doesn't need even be a flash car, Fiat HGTs go for next to nothing nowadays but you're putting a hot hatch 'performance' vehicle in the hands of an inexperienced driver, in this case you.

If you want to be a good driver, learn the ropes in a slow boring 1.0 or SDI. Do some advanced tuition, it's not particularly expensive.

You'll be better off for it and you'll be grateful in the long run.

[MFletch1999]

Cheers guys 

been thinking about your comments

the main thing is in order to get a GTI insured cheap is to have a black box. Surely this would allow to drive "safely" otherwise my insurance will be revoked. 

So should I still not get one, even with a box?

[Ropers101]

My opinion is take the advice from everybody else but if you want the GTI then go for it. I'm 21 in June and I've had my GTI since I was 18. Yes I paid more in insurance but it has dropped drastically over the last few years. Although I have had a few cars before the Lupo the first being a classic mini and the last being a Clio sport 172. Personally it's down to how you drive and whether you have previous experience driving,as others have said I've been driving and riding vehicles from an early age. 

[carrera-gt]

All the box will do is to allow the insurers to more easliy figure out who pays, that's all. It won't protect you from the mistakes you're going to make anyway, as a new driver you are many times more likely to have a accident in your first few years of driving.

Basically the faster the car the bigger the accident you end up having, it's not just you it's pasengers and potentially the poor souls coming the other way.

Many  of us who are responding to your post had friends die or have life changing injuries becuse of accidents in ourteenage years. learn from our experience, start out slow and your chances improve significantly.

[mattarosa]

Like others have said, wait for a few years, I know from experience short wheel base cars such as the lupo are very twitchy at speed, I had a one litre and the ended up on its roof, I was doing approximately 24mph, buy yourself a 1.3cdti long wheelbase Vauxhall combo van, couldn't pull the skin off and rice pudding, or get out of a damp paper bag, the beauty of that is you'll struggle to get it upto 60+. I can understand your wanting of a GTI, and as  everybody has said we have all done stupid stuff when we were younger so go low powered and go slow

[mickster]

If you get one just please don't buy a nice one write it off! 

And if you are in the south and want an unmodded one that needs some weekends spent on it let me know  

Seriously though just to add my 2 pence, I'm 25, passed late at 23 and bought the GTI as my first car. I've had quite a few near misses and am pretty sensible, it's a car that eggs you on to drive "just a little bit faster"! My brother is 17, passed with the same instructor as me in the same 1.6l fiesta and whilst he's fine in his 1l 107 I wouldn't trust him in my car, especially when he's giving a lift to his mate and two girls 

[MFletch1999]

10 minutes ago, mickster said:

If you get one just please don't buy a nice one write it off! 

And if you are in the south and want an unmodded one that needs some weekends spent on it let me know  

Seriously though just to add my 2 pence, I'm 25, passed late at 23 and bought the GTI as my first car. I've had quite a few near misses and am pretty sensible, it's a car that eggs you on to drive "just a little bit faster"! My brother is 17, passed with the same instructor as me in the same 1.6l fiesta and whilst he's fine in his 1l 107 I wouldn't trust him in my car, especially when he's giving a lift to his mate and two girls 

Yeah thanks mate, cant see myself writing one off. It would be such a waste of a "enthusiasts" car. I am in the south and will let you know if i need any work done. Gonna start looking for them soon as want a clean one

(un modded and prefferably full service history)

but any way nice to see im not the only one who has or had one for a first car.

[Skezza]

This thread has the makings of epic fail. You ask for people's advice, then tell everyone they're wrong and decide to openly ignore it.

If you do decide to buy a gti then all I can suggest is taking some further courses. 

Ah well.

[MFletch1999]

9 minutes ago, Skezza said:

This thread has the makings of epic fail. You ask for people's advice, then tell everyone they're wrong and decide to openly ignore it.

If you do decide to buy a gti then all I can suggest is taking some further courses. 

Ah well.

Just becuase a car is QUICK doesn't mean it has to be driven quickly. I mean no offence honestly mate, but fair enough young drivers are "statistically" more likely to crash. So what does it matter if i crash in a lupo at slow speed or in a fiesta at low speed. Not every young driver thrashes their car. And i know I certainty wont.

your telling me to have a small engine car in order to learn the ropes. Why cant i learn the ropes in a nippy car but just drive it slow. I am very risk averse. But i am a VDub enthusiast and know a gti is a modern classic. And i will retian the money i spend on the car (not that il be looking to sell it anyway)

but anyway i mean no offence I respect all od your feedback and past experience but not everyone wants to drive fast, my mum is an example of this. She drives a cooper s and wont go over 50 in a 70 zone haha

[Sausage]

I take it from that level of naivety that you probably have never even driven a car have you?

Given the right (or sometimes wrong) circumstances every young male will floor it and get their adrenalin pumping and end up driving beyond their abilities. The outcome is often down to luck.

Could you resist the urge to race your mates while trying to impress the girls? You can read about a car full of teenagers dying on a pretty regular basis, it's often down to having a car full and the driver allowing themselves to be egged on beyond their driving ability in order to impress others. Even if they are quite competent drivers on their own, the car handles completely differently with 4 or 5 up. 

To think that you would always be sensible is your brain justifying the choices you want to make before you have had any experience to base that on, it is not a reflection on reality.

Edit to add:

Why not take lessons intensively and pass your test asap, then when you have passed either look for a car then (your insurance may in fact go UP after passing the test btw) or else as suggested by skezza take the advanced driving courses as that will reduce premiums by quite a bit and will pay for itself many times over at your age, plus it will make you a better driver.

http://iam.org.uk/drivers/motorists-courses/advanced-driving/motorists-skill-for-life?gclid=COj3icDonMsCFbQV0wodcVIAEg

 

Edited February 29, 2016 by Sausage
added somink

[myles983]

As an 18 year old myself, I can't agree with the guys more about what they're saying. I'm THE most careful person you will ever meet, and I take pride in everything i own. And being a this age, you can't help but want to show off sometimes. But sometimes things happen, like my incident last year. I wasn't even going fast: I was doing less than ten miles an hour in slow moving traffic. Driving slow has its risks too. Driving full stop has its risks. All the guys here don't want is for you to end up as another statistic. I agree with them that maybe you should start off in something a little less expensive, and then work your way up. It'll give you a sense of achievement too, and something to look forward to. Maybe some Pass Plus schemes too. It's up to you. But I was exaclty the same as you, wanting a Gti for my first, but I'm grateful I took the time to listen to others around me and not get one just yet. You never know, you might find you like an SDi just as much as a GTi at some point. 

[Skezza]

On 27/02/2016 at 7:27 PM, MFletch1999 said:

Just becuase a car is QUICK doesn't mean it has to be driven quickly. I mean no offence honestly mate, but fair enough young drivers are "statistically" more likely to crash. So what does it matter if i crash in a lupo at slow speed or in a fiesta at low speed. Not every young driver thrashes their car. And i know I certainty wont.

your telling me to have a small engine car in order to learn the ropes. Why cant i learn the ropes in a nippy car but just drive it slow. I am very risk averse. But i am a VDub enthusiast and know a gti is a modern classic. And i will retian the money i spend on the car (not that il be looking to sell it anyway)

but anyway i mean no offence I respect all od your feedback and past experience but not everyone wants to drive fast, my mum is an example of this. She drives a cooper s and wont go over 50 in a 70 zone haha

Tbh, I wasn't going to reply because after this response I wondered if it was really worth it? But go on, I'll bite.

"Just becuase a car is QUICK doesn't mean it has to be driven quickly"
- Correct, but the more power you have the more likely you are to drive quick. It's not just about your mentality, it's about driving technique in general and how the car responds to your foot. You're probably learning in a small hatchback, you're slowly getting the hang of when to change gear etc and with practice you'll learn the best cruising speeds etc and which gear to be in. The thing is though, everything is slow. It's all very slow and even when you're trying to go fast, you're not, you're going pretty slow. That's a good thing when you're inexperienced, you'll have just that bit longer to react, a bit longer to think and a bit longer to correct any balls ups that you make. A second can be the difference between life and death, and if you don't have a clue (because you're a novice) then it could be the latter. Now you go and sit in a GTI, everything is much faster, the car is much more powerful and higher speeds are easily achievable. Pulling off will be faster, getting up to 60, cruising etc etc. Even experienced drivers will tell you, that when you're in a powerful car, you tend to drive faster because that's how the car responds to your foot. Most drivers aim to get up to 5th as soon as possible, well 5th in a GTI is much faster than 5th in a 1.0. You're trying to say that you're not a typical 17 year old, but trust me, we've heard it all before and you are. "I'm mature, I'm a good driver, I won't thrash it", you're not, you aren't and you will, when the time comes.

I drive an SDI as my daily (fuel economy is important to me), but I have access to my old mans PD130 Passat, and whereas getting up to 80-90 in the SDI requires a bit of effort and concentration, getting up to 90-100 in the Passat is incredibly easy and that's a car with only 103bhp. In fact, you don't even have to think about it in the Passat, you put your foot down on a dual carriageway and you'll easily get up to 100mph or more, no problem whatsoever.

GTi's are nearer 125bhp. Should a driver with as limited experience as that, be operating a vehicle that can easily blitz 100mph and get to 60 in about 8 seconds. Sorry, but no.

"So what does it matter if i crash in a lupo at slow speed or in a fiesta at low speed. Not every young driver thrashes their car. And i know I certainty wont."
- The whole point is trying to minimize your risks of crashing.... not enhance them. The aim of driving is to drive successfully, not crash, which is something that's gone right over your head here. Not every young driver thrashes their car? True, not every young driver takes unnecessary risks either.... erm, but they do, because almost 100% of the time your awareness and ability to read and judge situations comes after several months/years of solid driving. As a young driver, judgement is impaired and your ability to judge stuff like distances is just all over the place. We're not saying this to patronize you, we've all BEEN THERE and we're speaking from experience. I assume being such a mature 17 year old, you won't be giving any lifts to friends etc? After all, the biggest distraction for 17 year old drivers (aside from mobile phones, radios and all that crap) is other passengers, in particular when youngsters give lifts to 3 or 4 friends.... then it all get a bit out of hand, your driving ability is severely reduced and you'll also have the mentality of "oh i don't want to be seen as lame, let's show them what this 125bhp car can do 

"your telling me to have a small engine car in order to learn the ropes. Why cant i learn the ropes in a nippy car but just drive it slow."
- Is a bit like saying "I want to learn how to be a boxer, how about I go into a ring with Mike Tyson, but he can only punch me a couple of times a round". You're still taking up a bigger challenge than you think. You've got experienced drivers here telling you that's it not a good idea. We're not trying to buzzkill you or ruin your fun. Driving is fun, I certainly enjoy it and no doubt everyone else does here, but it's also dangerous and it's imperative that safety comes before "impressing girls at your college" or whatever....

"but anyway i mean no offence I respect all od your feedback and past experience but not everyone wants to drive fast, my mum is an example of this. She drives a cooper s and wont go over 50 in a 70 zone haha"
- 

 

[Pete]

My advice is to get one, get your old man to insure it. Hopefully you won't bin it of course, but if you do it makes mine worth more. Everyone's a winner.

[Skezza]

11 minutes ago, Pete said:

My advice is to get one, get your old man to insure it. Hopefully you won't bin it of course, but if you do it makes mine worth more. Everyone's a winner.

Lol Pete.

[THE_NORTON]

Im 19 now but actually owned a glanza at 18 as my first car... mistake it scared me to death I thought I was ready.. not the case, the lupo gti I had after was tame in comparison but that short wheel base can really bite you in the wet I had a few close encounters and ive got track experience, but its up to you that quote is pretty damn good so go for it and if you kill yourself then it was the wrong choice  I currently own a mk1 mx5 and it really proves you dont need the power

[cj1]

You're right in what your saying, that it does only go as fast as you press the accelerator, but the problem is even though you're saying you're going to drive it sensibly, there's going to be times that you want to push it further. Whether that be mates, girls, showing off, in a rush, whatever, it will happen at some point. 

I had a 1.0 as my first car and it really helped me get to grips with driving, I'd driven on track a few times prior to that , and was quite confident in driving. However when driving on the road it was entirely different, as there was other people about and not as much room  to compensate for errors. Especially at speed. I'm 21 now, and I'd like to think I've followed a steady upgrade Route,having owned Lupo 1.0, Polo 1.2 (60ps), Golf MK4 1.6(even if only for a week!), Polo 1.2TSI (105ps), MK7 Golf GTI (230ps), MK7 Golf R (300ps).  Whilst the only collision I've been involved in was due to someone rear ending me, and to my extent was unavoidable, it doesn't mean that I haven't been lucky. The Lupo isn't the best handling car in the world either, add into that 125bhp  and a lack of experience and it isn't great. I had the 1.0 with all the will in the world to drive it "sensibly", I still drove like a lunatic, as we all have at 17, screaming round every corner, understeering like mad, and was lucky to not have mainly hurt a passenger (always in quiet areas). 

I can't say my parents were thrilled at the thought of me having a golf GTI at 19, but I assured them "Just becuase a car is QUICK doesn't mean it has to be driven quickly" , and yet there were still times when I drove like an idiot, simply because the power was there. I said the same with the R that I have now, and again, I still drive it quickly sometimes and it will still catch you out occasionally, because it's there. We are only young and the temptation is always going to be there to drive quickly.

On 2/27/2016 at 7:05 PM, Skezza said:

This thread has the makings of epic fail. You ask for people's advice, then tell everyone they're wrong and decide to openly ignore it.

If you do decide to buy a gti then all I can suggest is taking some further courses. 

Ah well.

Totally agree Skezza, why ask for advice to then justify why you're right and we are all wrong? If you wanted one you'd just go and get one. We can only offer advice based on previous experience. 

If it's just the looks you're after like you say, why not get a 1.0, save yourself massively on fuel, insurance etc... and put the GTI body parts on? That way you gain experience both driving and modifying the car. 

 

 

[cj1]

4 hours ago, Skezza said:

"J You're trying to say that you're not a typical 17 year old, but trust me, we've heard it all before and you are. "I'm mature, I'm a good driver, I won't thrash it", you're not, you aren't and you will, when the time comes.