Removing IMMO?

[cj1]

Hi, has anyone successfully removed the immobiliser unit from their lupo, and if so how did you go about it?

I'm preparing a Lupo for rally use, and ideally I'm looking to remove the key barrel altogether and just have a on/off button, the only thing standing in my way really is the immobiliser! Tried looking around and can't find much useful so apologies if this has been asked/answered elsewhere.

Cheers

[Skezza]

ooooh How committed are you? This is a task and a half mate, but I'm up for helping you as it's something I've fancied doing to mine for a while (Although it might void my insurance, so I'll need to check on that one). I've wrote quite a long description in Immo's here: http://forums.clublupo.co.uk/index.php?/topic/100135-vag-tacho-301-anyone-had-success/?p=1146504

Two types of IMMO used on the Loop depending on age. Immo2, Immo3.

Almost all of the old Lupo's have Immo2 and most of the newer ones have Immo3. All GTi's have Immo3. There's a very grainy cutoff though, so you'll need to play by your own car buddy.

Although I've never tried, I can say with some accuracy that the Immo3 can almost certainly not be removed because the Immo unit and ECU are basically paired. No point in going in deeper than that really.

Immo2 is a totally different story. The units can be removed, because the two components are effectively modular in respect to each other, so while they connect from an electrical perspective, they don't share any software pairing or hashing. The immobilizer is merely a module working in its own right. Still with me? Good. As such, because the ECU has no software connectivity with your immobilizer you can almost certainly bypass the Immo2. However, you will need something to emulate the electrical signals produced by your immobilizer.

Step forward, £16 emulator board:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VAG-IMMO-Emulator-for-replace-defective-immobiliser-unit-to-2000-IMMO1-and-IMMO2-/151758421037?hash=item235581bc2d

Now, to make this work, you're going to have to short the W and K and then wire the K-Line into that emulator. Then power it from the same plug. Very easy job. Personally, if it was me though, I would grab myself a small plastic box of some sort, put the emulator board and make a nice little mount for it, rather than just havin a hanging circuit board.

Just me though, let me know if you want any more advice.

[cj1]

ooooh How committed are you? This is a task and a half mate, but I'm up for helping you as it's something I've fancied doing to mine for a while (Although it might void my insurance, so I'll need to check on that one). I've wrote quite a long description in Immo's here: http://forums.clublupo.co.uk/index.php?/topic/100135-vag-tacho-301-anyone-had-success/?p=1146504

Two types of IMMO used on the Loop depending on age. Immo2, Immo3.

Almost all of the old Lupo's have Immo2 and most of the newer ones have Immo3. All GTi's have Immo3. There's a very grainy cutoff though, so you'll need to play by your own car buddy.

Although I've never tried, I can say with some accuracy that the Immo3 can almost certainly not be removed because the Immo unit and ECU are basically paired. No point in going in deeper than that really.

Immo2 is a totally different story. The units can be removed, because the two components are effectively modular in respect to each other, so while they connect from an electrical perspective, they don't share any software pairing or hashing. The immobilizer is merely a module working in its own right. Still with me? Good. As such, because the ECU has no software connectivity with your immobilizer you can almost certainly bypass the Immo2. However, you will need something to emulate the electrical signals produced by your immobilizer.

Step forward, £16 emulator board:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VAG-IMMO-Emulator-for-replace-defective-immobiliser-unit-to-2000-IMMO1-and-IMMO2-/151758421037?hash=item235581bc2d

Now, to make this work, you're going to have to short the W and K and then wire the K-Line into that emulator. Then power it from the same plug. Very easy job. Personally, if it was me though, I would grab myself a small plastic box of some sort, put the emulator board and make a nice little mount for it, rather than just havin a hanging circuit board.

Just me though, let me know if you want any more advice.

Hi, the method of using the emulator board does seem relatively straight forward and I can't see it taking too long considering all wiring etc.. is already exposed.

As for commitment, the car's already fully stripped out and I've been doing bits to it, not got any plans to be out in it until next year so I've got plenty of time to get on with these things!

My concern really is that it's an 02 lupo, which by your explanation is probably just about around the time they began to use IMMO3. Is there a way to tell which one is fitted?

[Skezza]

Hmmm. That's a good question.

Do you have a VAGCOM, I reckon you can work out from there.

[Skezza]

What's the part number on top of the Immo?

[cj1]

What's the part number on top of the Immo?

Yes I have vagcom. Won't be home until Friday unfortunately so I'll have to check then.

What is it I'm looking for, will it literally say the immo type, or a code that refers to it? (Which presumably is what the part no. would do anyway!)

[Skezza]

The part number might indicate if it's an IMMO2 or IMMO3, although eBay has been no use thus far.

[cj1]

6X0 953 257

VL5

Valeo VALTR 05

They seem to be the only markings that could be a form of identification on the immobiliser box

[Skezza]

Hmm. That might be an immo3

[cj1]

Hmm. That might be an immo3

I think it is. To be honest I've been tempted to just take the chip reader off the key barrel, take the chip out of my key and hide it somewhere in the dash stuck together, and replace the key barrel with a switch.

Not the most ideal solution, but should achieve what i'm after

[Skezza]

I think it is. To be honest I've been tempted to just take the chip reader off the key barrel, take the chip out of my key and hide it somewhere in the dash stuck together, and replace the key barrel with a switch.

Not the most ideal solution, but should achieve what i'm after

To be fair, you could do that. Wouldn't be too complicated either

I mean, you could buy the emulator kit and find out, but it's a £16 gamble.

[jparkes43]

Hello guys. 

Sorry to bring up an old topic 

but I have a lupo 2000  x reg that I want to remove the immobiliser on. It’s immo 2 

its becauss I’m changing ecu because going to a sport engine 

I’ve bought this box like the one that was posted earlier 

does anyone have any idea how to wire it up. And where the ‘k’ line is 

[Sausage]

I made a lead up a while back, will have to rummage about to find out how to wire it up though:

12v 1.0A supply.

Only these pins needed this end...

Fly lead with resistor on to to get boot mode needed for immo off. I used vag commander i think.

Did immo off on spare TDI ecu.

Edit: also I found cheap kkl leads with clone ftdi chip would not work for immo off only a better one with genuine ftdi chip worked. 

Edited March 5, 2019 by Sausage

[jparkes43]

19 minutes ago, Sausage said:

I made a lead up a while back, will have to rummage about to find out how to wire it up though:

12v 1.0A supply.

Only these pins needed this end...

Fly lead with resistor on to to get boot mode needed for immo off. I used vag commander i think.

Did immo off on spare TDI ecu.

Edit: also I found cheap kkl leads with clone ftdi chip would not work for immo off only a better one with genuine ftdi chip worked. 

Ok thanks for all that so is your wiring going to be the same for mine ?  So confused aha 

 

james 

[Sausage]

Yours is a Marelli ECU, mine is Bosch, but given that the connections at the OBD port will be the same I dont think it matters. I did this a couple of years back so my memory might be a bit fuzzy. 

[jparkes43]

1 minute ago, Sausage said:

Yours is a Marelli ECU, mine is Bosch, but given that the connections at the OBD port will be the same I dont think it matters. I did this a couple of years back so my memory might be a bit fuzzy. 

So if I use the k line from the obd port and then a power source it should be all good

james 

[Sausage]

http://www.chiptuners.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=15042

Probably no immo off for your ecu it looks like.

ECU swap: http://www.digital-kaos.co.uk/forums/archive/index.php/t-138684.html

 

Edited March 5, 2019 by Sausage

[mk2]

I must be missing something. Unless you know the memory address space in the ECU, knowing which pin the K line is on is like knowing the moon is in the sky. Doesn't mean you can just visit it... 

In the ECU code, there is 100% certain an IMMO off select function. But knowing where it is, is factory info that of course is and never has been made public. You can mess about trying to activate and deactivate various features by experimentation, where most of the time you end up bricking the ECU. Although, once you get a few things right, you know the approx addresses of things that make a difference and suddenly you know how to do stuff in an ECU. Speak to Uwe Ross from rosstech... VAGCOM or VCDS as it's now called. But he did have help from friends at local vdub dealers who allowed him to play on the VAS system (in house VW dealer only computer interface), which he had loggers attached to the serial data lines- which gave him the memory addresses.

The more spare ECUs you have, the more experiments you can do. But that is generally only true once the ECUs become cheap, from older models. So new cars are usually main dealer only to do really simple stuff.

[Sausage]

You need to dump the eeprom (hence opening ecu up and forcing boot mode) and then use software to interrogate / alter it.

On marelli it seems like a very tricky thing to do, on the bosch quite straight forward.

Lead schematics: 

Bench Flash EDC15 P.pdf

Edited March 6, 2019 by Sausage