Poor brakes on the Lupo GTI

[R99]

Hi guys,

I've had the GTI for a while now, and have to say the standard brakes are pretty ****! The 1.2 Fox I had as a loaner last week had a superior brake set up!!

My old car (JCW MINI) had a JCW brake package consiting of calipers, pads & drilled / grooved discs. I dont really want to spend mega £££ on a set up like this for the Lupo, but I do want to upgrade the stock set up.

I was thinking of buying some cryogenic treated Nitrac discs along with new pads and fluid.

The question is; what pads are avaliable and does anyone have any recomendations?

[Mike_M]

Change the fluid for a start and then look at the 280mm brake upgrade. Loads of info on it with the search.

[R99]

Yeh, I have seen the 280mm brake upgrade threads. Am I correct in thinking this is a G60 set up?

I dont really want to go to the trouble of new calipers, carriers etc. Just upgrade the existing set up.

[jamiea7x]

from what ive read into it you could be just as cheap doing the g60 upgrade, as theres alot more choices as its a more common size, than what the gti has

[Silver!]

I got Mintex OEM replacements all round last year and they bite really well. Never feel underpowered on the road.

As Jamie says though there is a lot more choice (and cheaper) in 280mm discs and pads.

[Philplop]

Only need g60 carriers to do the swap, the calipers are the same. Carriers can be picked up off eBay for £70 max, and the 280 discs are cheaper, with more choice, and they look cooler.

Daft not to upgrade when renewing discs and pads, IMO.

[Defcon5]

The 1.2 Fox I had as a loaner last week had a superior brake set up!!

Ive never driven a Fox, but I would hazard a guess that along with a lot of new cars, the brakes are over servoed making the brakes seem better, whn in fact they are not

[jon_273]

If your brakes are that bad, then replacing the discs, pads and brake fluid even with standard parts would probably make just as big an improvement to braking performance than upgrading to a G60 conversion would. People on here have done a G60 conversion and not noticed a difference, but they probably had good brakes to start with, and would come on here posting that it wasn't worth it. If someone with a knackered set of discs and pads did the conversion then they would probably notice a big difference, and rave about them on here.

The 280mm conversion is dead easy though and if you were ever thinking of doing it in the future then you may as well do it now. Moving the caliper further out increases the braking torque, but you won't be able to run 14" wheels any more (not a problem to the majority of GTI owners) and also the bigger discs will likely increase unsprung weight (I wouldn't like to say if the difference would be noticeable, and I've not weighed the discs!)

If you go ahead with the G60 conversion, don't forget that you still use Lupo GTi pads with 280mm discs.

[99hjhm]

Alot has been said about the G60 discs weighing to much....

So I weighed them when I fitted mine..... Std disk 5.6kg, G60 5.8kg. Std carrier... 1kg, G60 1.1kg. So a difference, but not a huge amount.

If you think your brakes are poor, get somebody to drive you down the road with you in the passenger seat and ask them to press the pedal as hard as they can left foot. If you go toward the screen, they are OK.

[Kam Racing]

Alot has been said about the G60 discs weighing to much....

So I weighed them when I fitted mine..... Std disk 5.6kg, G60 5.8kg. Std carrier... 1kg, G60 1.1kg. So a difference, but not a huge amount.

If you think your brakes are poor, get somebody to drive you down the road with you in the passenger seat and ask them to press the pedal as hard as they can left foot. If you go toward the screen, they are OK.

were both of those brand new discs? I've just weighed some new Maxtorq Group N discs and the G60 disc was 5.5kg and the gti disc 6kg..

if you can lock the wheels under braking you will need better tyres or less weight in the car to reduce stopping times..

in terms of pads I'd reccomend the CL Brakes RC5+ compound. Unlike other manufacturers (who use organic compounds) they use sintered metal compounds which aren't restricted to small temperature bands to have an effective friction level - they work from cold right to over 1000 degrees celsius (which is higher than f1 cars operate at) at a consistant friction level so you will never get any fade from them.. Also sintered metal compounds do not transfer any pad material onto the disc so they don't need to be bedded in. It is the uneven transfer of pad material from organic compounds that people commonly refer to as warped discs..

The RC5+ is a high friction compound designed for light car applications and produces minimal dust / noise under braking..

> CL Brakes RC5+ pads

Edited June 8, 2010 by Kam Racing

[hunid-brake]

Ok i just got my Gti back from the body shop and after driving a terrible 1.1i VTR C2 for two weeks i was over the moon to get back in my baby. Only to then be utterly shocked at how crap the brakes are on the Gti compared to the C2's. They are so unresponsive and dont install any confidence at all. The car only had its MOT a couple months ago and there were no advisories for my brakes so im guessing they are just poor. I remember my Sport was the same. I once drove my mates clio sport and was gobsmacked at the responsiveness of the brakes on that. Got back into mine and felt like i was pushing my foot on a spongecake. So im getting it serviced and changing the brake fluid but im now sure i want to upgrade the discs and pads. I dont want a G60 upgrade, i just want new pads and new discs. Ive been looking at these so can anyone offer any feedback? Mucho gracias amigos.

Discs: Front http://www.europerformance.co.uk/pages/products/product_info.mhtml?product=557516

Rear http://www.europerformance.co.uk/pages/products/product_info.mhtml?product=559224

Pads: Front http://www.europerformance.co.uk/pages/products/product_info.mhtml?product=575833

Rear http://www.europerformance.co.uk/pages/products/product_info.mhtml?product=526092

The whole lot comes to £346.49 excluding delivery.

Anyone had any experience with these?

[hunid-brake]

mmmm, ok thanks, i did look at what Kam has but for this set (http://www.kamracing.co.uk/index.php/volkswagen/vw-lupo/brakes/brake-kits/vw-lupo-gti-fast-road-trackday-braking-kit.html) its pretty damn expensive, and i know it sounds dumb but id rather have some good looking discs that do the job as well obviously. Without sounding like too much of a chavvy toss pot i want people to see and know ive uprated my brakes. II like the look of grooved discs. Ive no doubt those CL pads are the nuts but v expenssive. now im confused.com

[99hjhm]

Wouldn't bother with the Black Diamond stuff, swapped my pads back to std ones as they were crap, had to get the discs blue before they started to work, all the paint melted off the discs then and onto my wheels.

Would also ignore the CL pads too.

Had my MG toy out at the weekend and forgot how good Green Stuff brakes were Everybody slates them, IMO, they work great, it doesn't even have servo assisted brakes and it far out performs the Lupo brakes.

I was looking at getting some Tarox Strada pads for the Lupo. 280mm brakes are a good upgrade, and so are Goodridge hoses, many say they make no difference, but I noticed a big difference(less spongyness), although less feel to the pedal.

[hunid-brake]

jesus there is literally no definitively good upgrade is there i have no idea now

[LoopEd]

Some tarox 6 pots

Only a grand for the front kit

[LoopEd]

Where abouts can you get them for that price? I'm after a set!

[hunid-brake]

lol.....yyeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh dont think i'll be getting them

[Richud]

i have to say that in not too impressed with my gti's brakes either. pads are half worn, soon as i need new ones im gonna go for the g60 disc upgrade.

[Kam Racing]

Wouldn't bother with the Black Diamond stuff, swapped my pads back to std ones as they were crap, had to get the discs blue before they started to work, all the paint melted off the discs then and onto my wheels.

Would also ignore the CL pads too.

Had my MG toy out at the weekend and forgot how good Green Stuff brakes were Everybody slates them, IMO, they work great, it doesn't even have servo assisted brakes and it far out performs the Lupo brakes.

I was looking at getting some Tarox Strada pads for the Lupo. 280mm brakes are a good upgrade, and so are Goodridge hoses, many say they make no difference, but I noticed a big difference(less spongyness), although less feel to the pedal.

Why do you say ignore the CL pads? have you tried them - I think they're fantastic on mine personally

[R99]

OK, time to bring this back up...

My discs are showing signs of grooving, so will need replacing soon and so will the pads.

Whats the best disc & pad set up avaliable for the standard size Lupo GTI brakes?

Stockers are looking at £176 from VW....

[Richud]

so brembo max discs.... on the brembo shop there 125quid, on GSF there 31. this is for one disc rite? lol still hell of alot cheaper.

[Rich]

OK, time to bring this back up...

My discs are showing signs of grooving, so will need replacing soon and so will the pads.

Whats the best disc & pad set up avaliable for the standard size Lupo GTI brakes?

Stockers are looking at £176 from VW....

Just fit the G60's.

Did you change the fluid last time ?

[Silver!]

I got Mintex OEM replacement discs and pads all round for about £119 from eBay.

Now £129 item 330350270809.

Pretty good for standard replacements.

[99hjhm]

so brembo max discs.... on the brembo shop there 125quid, on GSF there 31. this is for one disc rite? lol still hell of alot cheaper.

Sure the GSF ones are Brembo Max and not just everyday Brembo ones?

I have them on mine, tbh, next time i would probably go for ungrooved or drilled discs as they make a noise.

Would say go for Greenstuff pads myself, low dust, no noise, decent braking. Probably not the best in the world, but they are pretty cheap, don't expect Pagid RS15 performance. Now waiting for the haters.

[treblet]

Sure the GSF ones are Brembo Max and not just everyday Brembo ones?

I have them on mine, tbh, next time i would probably go for ungrooved or drilled discs as they make a noise.

Would say go for Greenstuff pads myself, low dust, no noise, decent braking. Probably not the best in the world, but they are pretty cheap, don't expect Pagid RS15 performance. Now waiting for the haters.

You've found one here!

I cannot stand Greenstuff pads, I've had a set on my old golf, ran them for around 250 miles and took them off again. Biggest waste of money in my opinion! All they did was make my wheels filthy with brake dust and warp my brake disks as they heated up so quickly under hard braking.

I'd go for anything other than EBC Greenstuffs again!!