1.6 16v engine turbo converted.....

[tonybig78]

Hi guys came across this website on the net by error but started reading some posts regarding turbo and supercharger conversions and found it so intresting i had to register......

Rite le me get to the point.....i have a golf 4 1600 16v bcb that originally started as a 1400 16v akq turbo converted.

Youtube videos:

Im currently rebuilding for a very high output engine approx 225bhp......here below are a few pics of the engine development including oil jet installation, forged pistons after coating, Big turbo installation (made by turbo technics), special high quality steel gudgeon pins (made by weymouth pins), engine painting etc.

Block before jet installation.

Again block before machining

Oil jets before installation (adjustment or the squirt)

Oil squirter installation

Oil squirter installation

Squiters.....

Big Turbo......You like??? lol

Hybrid Turbo

Finished installation

Forged pistons, coated with xylan skirts just to compensate for the extra heat.

Again the pistons after coating with keronite

New engine after painting.

Cheap conrod oil squirter....not sure if im gonna use these or get forged (if anyone can suggest where to get at reasonable price)

Another oil squiter test.

My baby all shiny......and yes she is a r reg now 12 years old in october.......

After some ptfe polish.....

Will write more about it soon. Let me know what u guys think. Spent many hours of research on the net trying to find solutions to my problems.....DETONATION.

I do have a few bits for sale too so if anyone is intereted i have a ported 1400 head, a set of 1400 shot peened conrods, a normally aspirated 4 branch manifold, may also have some lupo gti cams, piggy back ecus, and much more i have stocked after being through 5 engines 3 1400 and 2 1600 and having this car for now 12 years.

I can also do many tricks with vag com like disable seat airbags for instalation of aftermarket seats or like in my case r32 leathers, adjust milage, chage speedo to or from miles to kilometres, adjust speedo for different size wheels, match new keys and ecus and much more.....

To all, have a good weekend.

(Hope you guys dont tell me to bugger off just coz i have a golf!! after all with this engine we are all in the same boat!)

Tonybig78

Edited April 25, 2010 by tonybig78

[Mitchell]

cool, i built a 160 avy with 1400afh head schrick cam's and tb's, i'm running std alone management, casper and you should get on . lol

[pro3mark]

Looks awesome with a lovely power plant.

[tonybig78]

cool, i built a 160 avy with 1400afh head schrick cam's and tb's, i'm running std alone management, casper and you should get on . lol

like wise mate running dta engine management mapped by steve......check out my videos on youtube...tonybig78

cheers.

[CasperGTI]

Nice little project. I like your retro fit of the oil jets for that block, that's neat. I like the pistons, a good bit of kit there as we have seen on this forum already that two 1600 engines have now given up the ghost. The pistons and rings are just not built for boost, something I've always said from day one with these engines.

What sort of compression ratio are you running? And what intake temps are you seing?

My engine is 206bhp at the wheels at them moment, i'm running 10-12 psi of boost from an eaton blower at a cr of 8.5:1 and I don't seem to have many isues with detonation althouh I havebnt finished advancing the ignition to the point I want it as I have no pre det safety built in to the car yet. I have je pistons with total seal rings and carillio con rods with carr bolts. Pretty bulletproof!

I am currently fitting a water methanol injection system which is progressive to idc which will hopefully eliminate any pre det issues when I go for the extra advance. Something you could look in to fitting to increase octane levels and cool the combustion process.

My build thread is in the members rides section. Have a look, it seems we have gone down the same route.

John

[tonybig78]

Nice little project. I like your retro fit of the oil jets for that block, that's neat. I like the pistons, a good bit of kit there as we have seen on this forum already that two 1600 engines have now given up the ghost. The pistons and rings are just not built for boost, something I've always said from day one with these engines.

What sort of compression ratio are you running? And what intake temps are you seing?

My engine is 206bhp at the wheels at them moment, i'm running 10-12 psi of boost from an eaton blower at a cr of 8.5:1 and I don't seem to have many isues with detonation althouh I havebnt finished advancing the ignition to the point I want it as I have no pre det safety built in to the car yet. I have je pistons with total seal rings and carillio con rods with carr bolts. Pretty bulletproof!

I am currently fitting a water methanol injection system which is progressive to idc which will hopefully eliminate any pre det issues when I go for the extra advance. Something you could look in to fitting to increase octane levels and cool the combustion process.

My build thread is in the members rides section. Have a look, it seems we have gone down the same route.

John

Hi Casper nice to see im not the only nutter here....lol

I agree the stardard internals are just no good for a forced induction conversion....ive cracked and melted many pistons over the years.

Basically ill be using tesco 99 octane to keep engine internals cooler....i have also installed an audi tt water pump gear which is a few teeth smaller (i will upload pictures tonight) therefore running the engine cooler with also a modified spring in the thermostat (i cut it slightly) along with low temp radiator switch 82C from awesome gti.

Il be running a compression of around 8.5:1 just like u but with a boost of around 20psi from the hybrid turbo i had custom built considering that the coating i have is capable of withstanding temps of 2000 degrees for short periods.

.

I managed to squeeze 150 bhp out of a stock bcb 1600 16v engine but as u probaby know this engine has a stock compression of 11.5:1 therefore it didnt last long lol....got more out a stock 1400 that has 10.5:1.

To all the guys that think u can just bolt on a turbo please think twice......unless u have a good boost its pointless adding a turbo.

So where did u manage to get hold of your rods? how much were they? how did u go about the bearing stops not being there?? im thinking of using corrado g60 bearing as they have them.

Edited April 25, 2010 by tonybig78

[99hjhm]

Cheap conrod oil squirter....not sure if im gonna use these or get forged (if anyone can suggest where to get at reasonable price)

Another oil squiter test.

Not a fan of that, can't see it been any advantage, and that slots looks quite big.

[dj-jay]

deff u to guys are the legends of all thing mech, welcome along to buddy, owsome work on car to,,

[tonybig78]

Looks awesome with a lovely power plant.

Thanks.......

[tonybig78]

deff u to guys are the legends of all thing mech, welcome along to buddy, owsome work on car to,,

Thanks mate....knowledge comes after many attempts but most important thing is never give up!!!

Be easy for me to just bolt in a 1.8t engine but wheres the fun??

[tonybig78]

Not a fan of that, can't see it been any advantage, and that slots looks quite big.

The slot is tiny only 2mm and to be honest i dont really like the idea but after reading that porsche were the first to introduce in there turbo engines air cooled then i thought twice.....

[99hjhm]

The slot is tiny only 2mm and to be honest i dont really like the idea but after reading that porsche were the first to introduce in there turbo engines air cooled then i thought twice.....

Oh, guess I'm just used to looking at far bigger conrods.

Have you thought about having the valves and combustuion chambers ceramic coated to help fight off det?

[tonybig78]

Oh, guess I'm just used to looking at far bigger conrods.

Have you thought about having the valves and combustuion chambers ceramic coated to help fight off det?

no not really....i think the keronite coating should be enough and as long as i keep compression ratios low i should be ok.

I may no need 20psi of boost to achieve my set max power so until i pay another visit to steve i wont know

Tony

[CasperGTI]

Hi Casper nice to see im not the only nutter here....lol

I agree the stardard internals are just no good for a forced induction conversion....ive cracked and melted many pistons over the years.

Basically ill be using tesco 99 octane to keep engine internals cooler....i have also installed an audi tt water pump gear which is a few teeth smaller (i will upload pictures tonight) therefore running the engine cooler with also a modified spring in the thermostat (i cut it slightly) along with low temp radiator switch 82C from awesome gti.

Il be running a compression of around 8.5:1 just like u but with a boost of around 20psi from the hybrid turbo i had custom built considering that the coating i have is capable of withstanding temps of 2000 degrees for short periods.

.

I managed to squeeze 150 bhp out of a stock bcb 1600 16v engine but as u probaby know this engine has a stock compression of 11.5:1 therefore it didnt last long lol....got more out a stock 1400 that has 10.5:1.

To all the guys that think u can just bolt on a turbo please think twice......unless u have a good boost its pointless adding a turbo.

So where did u manage to get hold of your rods? how much were they? how did u go about the bearing stops not being there?? im thinking of using corrado g60 bearing as they have them.

My rods were custom made by carrillio in America. They weren't cheap, but are guaranteed not to fail for life. I do wish i had my pistons coated now, when you look back it in heinsight it was probably a good idea, but hey ho.

I also have modified the thermostat, and i have my radiator switch set to 84 degrees.

I think the BCB engine is different to the AVY in the way that the engine has piston guided rods. When you say bearing stops do you mean the rod bearings or the main bearings? I honestly didnt think about it on the rod bearing, and i dont think it will make too much of a difference as i took the oil channel out of the centre of the rod which will increase the oil pressure around that rod bearing, hopefully giving it more protection from spinning. I had carrillio re design the lubrication to the gudgeon pin which works with my oil jets. No problems so far, and its done 5000 miles now.

I think a few people on here have learnt the hard way with the internals with these engines, Its defiantly noted that the 1400 internals seem to be slightly stronger, but i was pretty sure they were near enough the same things, if not the same.

Anyway, heres a few pics of my engine.

[tonybig78]

Wow....rods look sick....ive had many qoutes cheapest was form china obviously....maxspeedingrods £380 delivered to 1200 from arrows.

I guess your were around 1000 rite? yes i was talking about conrod bearings. This engine has cracked conrods and therefore dont need a stop or whetever u wanna call it to prevent them from spinning inside the rod. But with machined rods its a totally different story.

Wonderfull engine by the way put a smile on my face now i know im not the only mad 1 on this planet...hahahaha

Ill take few more pics now of my modified water pump gear which u should maybe consider installing.

As for the 1400 internals i can only agree with u as i was pushing 170bhp from standard internals with another set of forged pistons i had until i noticed some idiot mechanic had turnt 1 of my injectors 90 degrees causing 1 piston to melt....ahhhhhh do it yourself if u want it done properly.

Thanks.

Edited April 26, 2010 by tonybig78

[CasperGTI]

Yeah the rods were around that mark when i had finished spending the money on the CARR bolts which might have been overkill but i didn't want to have any issues down there.

I really don't know why i didn't have a stop put on the carrillio rods. They were designed for this engine and were designed to the specifications i gave them. Carrillio probably thought there wasn't any need to put a stop in.

Yeah id like to see the water pump mod, that could help be loose a bit more heat. After all that's what it seems to be key with these engines. Im currently installing water methanol at the moment, its a bit of a slow moving project with that. Ive got all the kit, but just don't have the time at the moment to finish fitting it. Hoping that will sort out any issues i have when i put a bit more boost on to it in the next few months with a smaller pulley again.

if you go for 20 psi, you wont have any problems going past 225bhp, im making that sort of power with half that boost!

John

[tonybig78]

As promised...

p.s. i didnt paint the impeller, it comes like that with special coating to prevent rust and believe it or not its metal instead of the crap plastic fitted as standard. All u need for this mod is an audi tt water pump from gsfparts and a front plate welded to it.

U shouldnt have as much probs as me if your using a supercharger.....they dont tend to heat the engine as with a turbo.

As for the stops for the bearings if i was u id drop the sump just to double check mate thats last thing u want is to have to take the crank out to get it machined and then go find overhauled bearing.....lol not a simple task.

I say this because every company that gave me a quote after seeing my blue print the first thing they asked was "what about the bearing grooves??" every single 1! thats y im worried for u and me.....

I yet have to get hold of a set of corrado g60 bearings to see if they do fit which would be a very quick fix even for u although u would have to take your rods out again to get the dremel or your local machine shop on them.

I was looking at your pics more carefully and i noticed your using an oil/water heat exchanger....have u considered using an oil cooler instead? i had your setup before and i noticed the oil was getting a little hot so i took the exchanger off and replaced with oil cooler and things seemed to be a little better.

Tony....

Edited April 26, 2010 by tonybig78

[CasperGTI]

I'll speak to carillio about the bearings. See what they say about it. But then like you said mabe because of me using a charger and you using a turbo, mabe it wasn't necessary. I'll have to check anyway and see. Engine hasn't skipped a beat for 5000 miles so far, I'm guessing I'd know if one had spun.

At the moment, the water/oil cooler is standing up to the job, although I do have a sandwich plate and oil cooler set up ready to go on the car. It's just finding time to get it all fitted. I've got a huge pile of parts waiting to go on the car, which will see me some more power. Christ knows when I'll get round to doing it.

These things are never finished, u guess you definatly know what I'm talking about!

With that oil squirter cut out in the rod, I'm not too keen on that either, I know it's a radiused hole, but it's still a very good point for stress raisors to start a crack from, especially in that position.

John

[tonybig78]

Oh believe me ud know by now if it had spun but to be on the safe side id check with my own eyes if i was u! been through that to many times before people giving their word then **** goes boom!! I know John same here never got enough time in a day and when i have i feel to knackered to do anything.....And yes mods like these are never ending well at least if u have passion and patience like we do......many just like to jump in the car and drive.

hope u speak to carillo soon to let me know what they say about this issue as its exactly where im stuck now....

could u do me a favour and ask them how much they would want for another set of rods considering they already have all necesary to make another set? just make out u need them for yourself.

Im gonna be ordering my rods later tonight well at least ill be giving them the deposit and the ok to procede.

Im not trying to give u any bad luck mate just dont want u to be as unlucky as me.

What did u think about the water pump mod??

I didnt mention im also building a sump baffle did i? just to throw a little more oil up the cylinders. Will take pics when i get some time although i know it will cause a loss of a little power it will keep the engine safe.

Tony.

Edited April 26, 2010 by tonybig78

[tonybig78]

Any joy John?? did u speak to them??

[CasperGTI]

I spoke to performance unlimited, who are the supplier for the UK,they said i had nothing to worry about, and the knotches are used for bearing location, not to hold the bearing to prevent spinning.

They have the designs to make the rods, another guy on here from France has recently bought a set. Couldn't give me a price as it changed weekly due to the price of billet and exchange rate.

I then spent some time then speaking to friends about it in the industry and did some more research myself.

Basically, there seems to be alot of mixed opinion about keyways in the bearings. I always thought keyways are designed to locate the bearing, not stop it spinning. If a bearing was to want to spin a small knotch in a bearing wont stop it! Bearing crush is used on a correctly machined set of rods to hold the bearings. Im personally not worried about it, carillio know how to design a con rod if they thought i needed to have tabs then they would have supplied them with it.

If you do a bit of a google search for bearing tangs and bearing crush you will find all the relevant research and information you need to know about the tangs. Not one says that it is there to stop them from spinning.

You say prices for your rods ranging from £380-1200, what do you think the difference in price is for? Id think machining and forging quality.

If you research in to 1.8t 20v rods, you will see more of the cheaper rods have keyways. And more expensive rods don't, which you get bearing sets for, and are designed to be crush held. Hence supplying specific stretch bolts and torque/stretch figures to provide the correct crush. ones fitted with locating tangs are there becasue they have bearings that are required to be fitted in a specific direction for operation. In the case of the lupo engine that is not the case.

Then there's engine loading, a charger provided a linear pressure increase where a turbo provides a spike of power. don't know if that would make a difference to design?

John