Lupo GTI or Clio 182?

[LiamD]

Nearly every car has it's faults and problems, especially older cars. From my experience of Clios they seem to be more build quality related issues than mechanical problems, although I'm sure Alex will clear that up, being the font of Renaultsport knowledge.

Look at the quality of new VWs, the Fox is built shockingly badly, the Mk5 Golf wasn't great (my mates spent AGES at the dealers getting stuff done) and Polos are just made from one big lump of plastic it seems. I wouldn't hesitate to get a Renault over the VW if I preferred the overall car!

For the record I haven't driven a Clio 182, but I have driven a standard Lupo GTi.

[Alex_225]

It has no knocks or hidden faults, like so many Clios out there, and is ready to go to a new home!

Thats just an easy selling pitch though really. Like any performance car, Civic Type-R, Clio 182, Fiesta ST etc. They all fall into the wrong hands, get ragged and bashed up. Where as 50% of them will be used by enthusiasts like us who will treat the car as their pride and joy.

With regard to Laguna's, they are shocking for depreciation, along with Mondeos, Vectras etc, all the usual rep mobiles. You really are daft if you buy any of them from new or even nearly new.

Very few cars suffer from small ammounts of depreciation, performance cars have been hit even harder of late. Thing is with the Clio 172 and 182s, they've already take a massive whack. I paid £12.5k for my 172 which I sold 2 years later for just under £8k. That was in 2005, you'd now get that 172 for £4k.

Bloody bargains if you ask me! Sub £6k for a Clio 182 which probably cost the first owner nearer £15k is pretty good. Especially as its loaded with goodies. Leather/alcantara, Xenons, climate control, auto wipers/headlights, cruise control etc.

Mate of mine has a Ford Focus ST and to be honest the build quality isn't amazing, not bad but certainly not mind blowing. My mums 4 year old SportKa has rusty bits.

I guess all my point is that you can't sum up a car manufacturer by being Jap, German etc. The new Honda Civics have had reliability issues, just look at some of the problems Lupos have had on here for the 'German' argument. I've owned four Clios, a Renault 5 and still my Megane and all have been faultless. But I have know others to own them and have real problems.

Its luck of the drawer with cars IMO. As for the 182 or GTi choice, its a tough one but go drive both and decide from there.

Edited December 30, 2008 by Alex_225

[Fow Vay]

Well argued Alex - you're right about the Laguna - I tried to warn my folks about it but they pressed ahead - my old man didn't think the Golf of the time represented value for money.

[Alex_225]

Thanks very much! haha

The Laguna's are lovely cars but when you look at the models you can get that are 3-4 years old compared what they went for its shocking. A bargain for anyone buying but bad for anyone selling. Guess its all the fleet models out there such as the ones mentioned.

Thing is I got my Megane for £4k off the price Renault would have sold it to me for. You'd think that depreciation would start at the original £20k price tag but it starts from the £16k you can buy them from a broker.

What hasn't helped is that people have been buying new, on finance then just chopping in for silly low prices to buy another new car 3 years later. Totally floods the market and in turn prices plummet.

**** for selling a car at the moment but if you're on the prowl for a performance motor then its bargain central. If I had a spare £5k I'd invest in a mint 172 or 182 and hang onto it. The rarer ones do fetch a bit more and for what they are, were even cheap new but sadly depreciate like anything else.

All 2nd hand hot hatches are a complete bargain at the moment. Still never fails to surprise me how well the Lupos have held on. Even the BMW Minis have taken a hit, my mates gf's selling a mint 53 plate Mini Cooper-S, full spec'd and would have been over £22k. Struggling to sell for £9k 5 years later, £13k depreciation even on these cars.

Edited December 30, 2008 by Alex_225

[mattr6]

Just my 2p's worth, my last car was German (mk4 Golf) and it was boring. What I've found with French hot hatches is they're fun! And they handle great (never riven a Lupo Gti so can't comment there)

As for build quality, I'd say build quality is a bit down on Renaults but that also depends on how you look after it (as with most things). What you can't knock is the value- you can get an 05 182 now for £5k! Can't really see that depreiciating massively now, and so cheap for the performance.(assuming you can insure it!!)

[Alex_225]

As for build quality, I'd say build quality is a bit down on Renaults but that also depends on how you look after it...

That is actually spot on! It is how you look after a Renault to an extent. I'm gentle on all my cars but have known others who use them hard.

Mate of mine had a Megane 225, which he rejected from Renault and eventually got a replacement. Within a week he'd taken the thing apart, modified bits and pieces. Took me for a spin once, scary feeling going sideways off a round about in the dry!!! He drove that thing seriously hard and I'm not surprised the first one played up.

Best thing is to look for a 182 with all the correct servicing and check on the condition of it. If it looks, looked after in all senses then it mostly likely will have been and won't be problematic.

[zulu]

I'd dissagree, The 182 would not leave the lupo for dust if its in the hands of a good driver.

GTI's are very good cars, Great looking, Fast, Fun and Reliable.

If you ask me GTI all the way.

[simpo]

I'd dissagree, The 182 would not leave the lupo for dust if its in the hands of a good driver.

GTI's are very good cars, Great looking, Fast, Fun and Reliable.

If you ask me GTI all the way.

You have gti vision.

A standard gti understeers horrendously and is well down on power against the clio. Id rather have a lupo gti, but its not in the same league.

[Alex_225]

You'll find that a Clio 182 Cup is probably one of the best handling cars out there, even compared to faster and more expensive cars. I'm sure the Lupo GTIs are great handling as well but somehow I don't think they'd out handle one.

Also I know the power from the 182s is not always bang on, usually around the 170-175bhp mark but thats still at least 40bhp+ difference. 0-60 in a 182 arrives in about 7 seconds or under for the Cup models, the Lupo GTI reaches 60 in just over 8 so there's a fair difference.

I doubt a 172 or 182 would leave it for dead, but it would certainly pull away from it in most situations.

I think the appeal with the Lupo is its character and rarity over its all out performance. Thats what makes the difference, both will make you feel good but it depends what YOU are after as an individual.

[Fow Vay]

0-60 in a 182 arrives in about 7 seconds or under for the Cup models, the Lupo GTI reaches 60 in just over 8 so there's a fair difference.

I'm going to split some more hairs . Official 0-62mph for the GTi is 8.2 seconds so 0-60 is probably bang on 8 seconds. However, to muddy the waters further when Auto Express tested the GTi they measured 0-60 at 7.7s - VW have a reputation for being slightly conservative with their figures. I certainly wouldn't take on a Clio 172 / 182 (I wouldn't actually take on any car - far too old for that sort of nonsense!) but it's not really a fair comparison; you always get a lot less car for your money (although HOPEFULLY better built!) from VW in comparison to Renault, Ford, Vauxhall etc. and the Clio has an extra 400cc. Edited January 6, 2009 by Fow Vay

[Alex_225]

That is splitting hairs but then again thats all part of the fun haha.

Thing is with a lot of manufacturers is that they undequote performance figures, not just VW. Clio 182 will still do 0-60 about a second quicker than a GTi.

I think its pretty clear cut that the 182 will out perform the GTI in most aspects so you really have to define the Lupo GTI for its own merits other than just performance.

[d9nngti]

id go LUPO better built cars! clios are well common now and lets face it they'll never be as good lookin as the gti or vw for that matter, ive had 2 polos and a lupo gti and wouldnt swap vw for owt especially french!

[Alex_225]

Quick question though, have you ever driven one? Its all about how a car makes you feel when you drive it.

[zulu]

You have gti vision.

A standard gti understeers horrendously and is well down on power against the clio. Id rather have a lupo gti, but its not in the same league.

Gti Vision I don't think so...

I Have owned a lupo And drilled a 182 Cup Without a huge effort, Like stated if the lupo is driven properly it is not that much of a task.

For The Hurrendous understeer issue I'd also dissagree. As long as the factory Dunlop SP Sport 2000 E's are present with good tread and the cars not been lowered or susp been modified in any way the cars has litterally no understeer (even in the wet) as long as you don't apply the power to early through the bend I don't see any reason for the car to have ''HURRENDOUS'' understeer.

Diffrent driving style will alter the car's performance in my eyes!

[simpo]

The cars are very different performance wise, im sure you could wipe the floor with a 182 , either you are a very good driver or need to stay off the drugs.

I cannot believe there is no understeer unless you are not pushing it at-all, front wheel drive cars are prone to run wide on the limit and the gti is no exception.

There have been countless topics on the gti's understeer obviously yours is completely different. My standard sport handled alright but nothing special, with collies and a rear arb it handled pretty good, but still understeered unless provoked.

My standard civic turns in much better, the gti is flawed. Its good for what it is and a good fun package,it looks the part, rare, some people will tell you they are well made. But the handling isn't great without spending some money on it and they need more power at-least 150bhp, to be properly quick.

[Fow Vay]

I think its pretty clear cut that the 182 will out perform the GTI in most aspects so you really have to define the Lupo GTI for its own merits other than just performance.

I'd struggle to do that . I've heard my car described as 'girly', it isn't especially quick, there are better handling small cars out there, the boot is tiny and it doesn't even have a glovebox! Despite all that, I know when the day comes to part with it I'll be gutted. A bit like being asked to explain why I like my favourite band, or film, I can't, I just like it - end of! Ever since I saw a raven blue one in a VW showroom years back I've always wanted one; it's got character, which is lacking in the vast majority of cars on the road. I've just shelled out £650 today for its service, MOT and timing belt change (plus water pump) and I don't grudge a penny!

[zulu]

The cars are very different performance wise, im sure you could wipe the floor with a 182 , either you are a very good driver or need to stay off the drugs.

I cannot believe there is no understeer unless you are not pushing it at-all, front wheel drive cars are prone to run wide on the limit and the gti is no exception.

There have been countless topics on the gti's understeer obviously yours is completely different. My standard sport handled alright but nothing special, with collies and a rear arb it handled pretty good, but still understeered unless provoked.

My standard civic turns in much better, the gti is flawed. Its good for what it is and a good fun package,it looks the part, rare, some people will tell you they are well made. But the handling isn't great without spending some money on it and they need more power at-least 150bhp, to be properly quick.

Of course there is understeer... Just not Hurrendous amounts!

I would not say Im any better a driver than alot of ppl, Though obviously your not taking full advantage of the GTI or I had a super Lup (Which I doubt).

The handling itself is not the best but is more than sufficient and i doubt could be improved upon unless set up properly and I mean to a 'T'

Im only speaking from past experiance with the 182..

And as for the civic turn in, what one is it you own?

Yes I agree More power is needed and Possibly a Limited Slip Diff!

Possibly you should choose your wording more wisely as once again the lupo gti does not have 'hurrendous' understeer...

I'll stick to my guns and say once again the Lupo is a better car than the 182 in my eyes as a daily driver and as a daily ragger.

I pushed my GTI To the limits daily and never felt there were a huge amount of flaws.

The lupo in my eyes is in a league of its own, it's one of these cars that does nothing outstandingly great, But does everything to a very good level

As described by Evo Magazine 'Its Like A Mini RS4'

[Daz_Kez]

Of course there is understeer... Just not Hurrendous amounts!

I would not say Im any better a driver than alot of ppl, Though obviously your not taking full advantage of the GTI or I had a super Lup (Which I doubt).

The handling itself is not the best but is more than sufficient and i doubt could be improved upon unless set up properly and I mean to a 'T'

Im only speaking from past experiance with the 182..

And as for the civic turn in, what one is it you own?

Yes I agree More power is needed and Possibly a Limited Slip Diff!

Possibly you should choose your wording more wisely as once again the lupo gti does not have 'hurrendous' understeer...

I'll stick to my guns and say once again the Lupo is a better car than the 182 in my eyes as a daily driver and as a daily ragger.

I pushed my GTI To the limits daily and never felt there were a huge amount of flaws.

The lupo in my eyes is in a league of its own, it's one of these cars that does nothing outstandingly great, But does everything to a very good level

As described by Evo Magazine 'Its Like A Mini RS4'

thats all aload of horse,

i used to drive a 1.3 rallye(a car thats mean't to be tested so i did) don't get me wrong i was and am still 17 at the time, had the car a while and knew the roads and therefore how to push it, it was rr'd at 117.5bhp at the fly if i remember, and weighed about 800kg, not immense power but not slow,

no LSD or anything of the sort, had some springs, dampers & uprated ARBs, handled like a dream, one day i saw one of these clios pottering down the old backlanes so i knocked it down as you do and he heard me coming, now this car handled like a dream(the 106) you could literally sling it around bends, but by the time i'd got round the corner he was literally gone, fair enough i caught up with him after a bit, but dam it was quick, yes you may say its down to my lack of driving experience but i knew my car and knew the road and what speed you could do down there "safely" but it was no match for the 182? and he said it was standard, so tbh mate idc if your lewis hamilton you've not no chance with a gti...

[zulu]

The cars are very different performance wise, im sure you could wipe the floor with a 182 , either you are a very good driver or need to stay off the drugs.

As for staying of the drugs, Silly remarks like that are Irellevant and maybe offensive to some people.

Despite what you believe, On road and paper performance are worlds apart. These so called figures %90 of the time don't count for nothing on road as 1 second or 2 can be lost so easily Unless your Tiff Needell Which I don't think you are?

And as for turn in with the civic, You can't even feel what's happening between the steering/wheels to the road. In short the steering is to light which the EP3 has been slated for time and time again.

I love Honda's, they are great machines and produce some of the greatest drivers cars ever but for me the DC5 is the one if a K20'D engine'd Honda's what your looking for. No Offence meant though

[zulu]

thats all aload of horse,

i used to drive a 1.3 rallye(a car thats mean't to be tested so i did) don't get me wrong i was and am still 17 at the time, had the car a while and knew the roads and therefore how to push it, it was rr'd at 117.5bhp at the fly if i remember, and weighed about 800kg, not immense power but not slow,

no LSD or anything of the sort, had some springs, dampers & uprated ARBs, handled like a dream, one day i saw one of these clios pottering down the old backlanes so i knocked it down as you do and he heard me coming, now this car handled like a dream(the 106) you could literally sling it around bends, but by the time i'd got round the corner he was literally gone, fair enough i caught up with him after a bit, but dam it was quick, yes you may say its down to my lack of driving experience but i knew my car and knew the road and what speed you could do down there "safely" but it was no match for the 182? and he said it was standard, so tbh mate idc if your lewis hamilton you've not no chance with a gti...

Don't be a tool!

You obviously have no Idea what your on about, I said I was talking from experiance not daydreams!

I don't really care if your pug had 117 bhp the lack of torque is a joke. BHP is not everything!!!

This is a Lupo forum so therefore i find it uneccesary to slate it.

Your story was pointless. We are talking bout 182's/GTI's.. NOT PUGS

[Daz_Kez]

LOL, yeah right.. 90% of the figures count for nothing?

ok lewis... so i suppose 50bhp makes noo difference at all, in 2 small hatchbacks when "racing" neither does the fact that the hatchback with more bhp weighs less & handles better?

You soo need to go back to sleep this is a battle your not going to win in your "lupo gti clio 182 killer" sorry to say it, but its true and i have no time for people who talk utter shat

[zulu]

LOL, yeah right.. 90% of the figures count for nothing?

ok lewis... so i suppose 50bhp makes noo difference at all, in 2 small hatchbacks when "racing" neither does the fact that the hatchback with more bhp weighs less & handles better?

You soo need to go back to sleep this is a battle your not going to win in your "lupo gti clio 182 killer" sorry to say it, but its true and i have no time for people who talk utter shat

READ PROPERLY.. On road i stated!

Your Obviously A young lad who got a HARD-ON at your 1st car

As far As I see your the one talking SH*TE

Diffrent people differ in Cars!

I think you should stick to your back roads Chasing 182's

[zulu]

This Is obviously turned into an argument so im the 1st to say no offence meant to any1.

'Simpo' EP3's are great cars and the K20 is intoxicating

[Daz_Kez]

READ PROPERLY.. On road i stated!

Your Obviously A young lad who got a HARD-ON at your 1st car

As far As I see your the one talking SH*TE

Diffrent people differ in Cars!

I think you should stick to your back roads Chasing 182's

LOL alright then mate...

my pug? yes pug well done, would have eaten a standard gti...

so as for a gti eating a 182? you are dreaming, that is the point i was making

and yes were on a lupo forum, i know i've been here long enough, but you?

and as for sticking to the backroads chasing 182s, im 17 mate yes i have a pretty slow car, lots to learn

but your a lot older than me im gathering and you don't seem to take someone(whos 17) shooting your point down in flames well

182 eat my 106 my 106 eat gti...

so end of...

Edited January 7, 2009 by Daz_Kez

[Boy'dup]

This Is obviously turned into an argument so im the 1st to say no offence meant to any1.

'Simpo' EP3's are great cars and the K20 is intoxicating

did this require a new thread?