Rear Speakers

[DanGTI]

"and i quote"....u definately are a funny mo*&^r f@$^er!

I give up arguing - ur obsession scares me!!! Depending how u read it, im sure u will admit can sound daft!...any idiot can tell u u cant hear a sound from behind as clear or directly as one from infront but u worded it as if to say you couldnt hear it at all, which really would be damn stoopid.

[DanGTI]

oh also that rear speakers dont improve the sound.....they do.....I know cos Ive tried it - even crap ones help it sound a bit better.

[Tigz™]

Ok I can see where you are coming from, Im sorry if I worded it wrong.

I have trouble with words, If you had said you didnt understand it I would have realised that.

Anyway glad it was sussed out.

getting back onto our rear speakers debaite.

Have you heard a system that is amped up front maybee 200wrms. And a single SQ sub (nothing like Rockford, or Alpine I mean soming like a Crystal, Or RE. Given around 1000wrms?

The diffrence between that and front and rear is great.

There is a diffrence between front and rear, and just front.

LoudLupo took the 17" sub out after a show, and was running, comonants, and 7x10s in the rear quarter panel, just playng bass.

Its sounded really good.

But f ou asked him if he thinks it sounds better like that, or with even a small sub like mine, I think he'd rather have a small sub and front comps.

That was the main point im trying to make.

Why recoment to people to make there system to sound better, when they can make it the best?

Im sorry if my views come accross stong.

I just like it when I know people would be happy with something somebody recomended.

[DanGTI]

think its just a misunderstanding with wording, i dont think either of us will loose sleep over it!......and i think where u r talking about 'real' system building that involves replacing most the standard components, im just talking about an easy upgrade if someones just looking for an improved sound....i really think if someone doesnt want either a dedicated amp or a sub in their boot some rears speakers (even if only used for low frequencies) will help.

[Tigz™]

Ya cool. Been stoned both nights of discusion. Probably ddnt help. lol

Its just fitting rear speakers is quite a big job to do it right.

Its a lot smaller job, to fit, say a 8" sub, small amp under the passenger seat to power it, so you only lose an eight of your boot.

And it will sound better.

[Max]

Been `tip-toeing` around this post. Im glad we're all one big happy family again. style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" />

I can see both sides of the argument. As im into audio, I would agree with tigz- at the end of the day its all fact.

I can also see the side that we're not all audio buffs. Take my dad for example; to him, the 'noise' coming out of my ****ty telly sounds the same as the noise coming out of my seperates system. He doesnt actually listen deep into the music, its just there in the background.

Some people just want more 'background' music in their car, not to listen to the finer details of a track. Its not my approach, but as I keep saying, as long as the individuals happy with THEIR system.

[DanGTI]

glad u can see what im on about - if u want to build a 'real system' separate components using subs and amps will always be best and for me anything else in a home system generally never sounds as good.....but for me a car system has to sound as good but its not as critical cos; when im driving i dont get into the music as much anyway and also cos i feel that no matter how good a system i build Ill always have to contend with road & engine noise anyway.....

......saying that I will prob at some point want to upgrade to include an amp, better front speakers & find a way how to stop the front door card rattles so will be glad of any advice from u ICE dudes.

[Tigz™]

http://forum.clublupo.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=4580

Heres a good place to start with the doors mate.

Road and engine noise can be sorted out quite easiley useing Dynomatt if you can afford it, or Roofing flashing tape does almost as good a job for a fraction of the price.

The roof is ver good asstandard, the floor and bulk head defenatly need soundproofing though.

Ive done the boot, doors and rear 1/4 panels but still have the floor and bulk head to do.

When I do it I'll take pics.

[DanGTI]

sounds like a big job all the soundproofing - i quite like my engine noise so would want to get rid of that, just whenever i turn up the volume moderately loud they rattle.....im gonna read that link.......

[DanGTI]

ok i dont want to cut up the doorcards but if i mount some new speakers on an mdf ring which is fixed to the door somehow, then i use dynamat or flashing tape for inside the doorcard it should stop it?

[Tigz™]

Most of the rattle appear because the speakers are where they are. Once fitted in front of the door cards the diffrence is huge.

Sound proofing isnt that bad a job to tell you the truth mate.

The worst bit is taking the carpets and seats out.

When your sat there with a roll of tape and a blow touch its quite fun lol

[DanGTI]

is there nothing i can do with the speakers in the standard position?.... i dont want to have to take out the grills and have them sticking out

[Tigz™]

Ya, you could fit them to MDF rings behind the door cards, then seal of all the gaps between the inner and outer door panels.

This is alot more work, and even though you'll stop lot of the rattles, it'll be unlikley you can stop them all.

You will need to use Extreme dynomatt though as to seal off the door it'll need to be elasticy, and only Extreme (as yet) can provide this.

[WanabeGangster]

Surely if you seal the doors, there gonna fill up with water from the window scraper seal?

[Tigz™]

Sorry I didnt explain that right.

I meen seal the hole in the inner door panel.

So the air from the front of the cone, can not reach the rear of the cone.

[DanGTI]

that makes sense....just fitted my (yes im gonna say it) rear speakers.......its definately sounding waaaaay better than before, also cos i put the alpine h/u in but now the fronts dont sound as good........without turning into `ice-man`-dan and spending a fortune on it what do you reckon would give more power and clarity for the front......think a small amp (powering all speakers) & fronts would do the trick?

just been messing with the bass and treble frequency control but cant hear any difference, whats that all about?

[Topper]

find a way how to stop the front door card rattles so will be glad of any advice from u ICE dudes.

I had this problem too. I did some investigating and found that when i had the cards off and playin some tunes with a lot of bass the foam skin like thing next to the speakers was vibrating, hence the rattles. After taping it up to strengthen it most of the rattles had gone. Another thing that helps it tightenin the screws at the bottom up evry so often.

[Lenni_Lupo™]

Ok.

Before I got intrested in ICE I had a JVC cd player, *Couff* Sony xplod sub with built in amp, and a set of Kenwood 3 way 6x9s (Oh the shame of it! lol)

I then bought a second hand Top end Alpine headunit, used Rockford Sub and a Alpine amp.

I put them into the Lupo when I got it, and it sounded crap.

The speakers up front sounded terrible.

This was because the headunit had too much power.

The Alpine head unit provides around 17wrms but because it has to really work hard to creat it, it isnt a very good signal.

So a seperate amp for the front speakers (Your rear speakers will be fine on the headunit when the internal h/u amp will work better on two channels intead of four) would be a good idea.

They dont have to cost a lot.

You could pick up a used high end amp for £100 that would last you years.

The only reason that the amp I have on hold is new is because I couldnt find a used amp with the right power.

You could buy a really good amp for £50

I paid £50 for a 4x70 2x160wrms Blaupunt amp.

That I sold an Alpine amp because it wasnt as good shows how pleased I am with it.

Another option you could try is to set you high pass filters.

At the moment your headunit will be playing all the music/frequency through into your midrange speakers.

This isnt so bad for 6x9s or the like because they arnt as sensitive as the front speakers (they are Blupunt 7wrms) now they can handle alot of power, the most I put through them was `140-160wrms` my 4 channel Alpine gave them when I bridged it. They were fine because I cut off all the frequencicys below 80hz.

On your head unit you can do the same thing.

You need to set your high pass filter to 80hz.

That will make it sound 10x better.

Then you can see if you think you need to buy an amp.

I cant remember how to do it, as the headunits power supply was cut when VW cut the cable off, I cant go and do it.

Can anyone tell him what the button is to set the HP filter on a Alpne head unit?

Tigz

[Tigz™]

Right if I remember rightley mate if you press and hold the "Band" button, the colour of the buttons will change colour.

Then use the "Next track" button to set the HP to 80hz

[Tigz™]

Oh yes, almost forgot.

Make sure the MX function is switched off.

It doesnt do anything except boost the bass, and can cause the headunit to clip quicker.

If you keep all bass at 0 and ajust the trebble acordingly.

On my standard front componants, with bass boost off, bass at +0 and trebble on +1 I think my headunit would start to clip at around 20.

You can normally get away with 31 once amped.

[DanGTI]

havent seen anything to do with high pass; ive got options for bass frequency, treble frequency (summin different from the normal bass and treble boosters) and some control over bandwidth.....its only a cheapo unit so it doesnt have many features.

[Tigz™]

Whats the model number mate and I'll see if you have the option.

[DanGTI]

ummmmm, ill find it.

cde 9822rb

I dont think it does cos i had a look through the guide....any idea what those features do though? ( treble/bass frequency & bandwidth)

[Tigz™]

The bandwidth is at what frequenciy you boost the signal.

So lets say you boost it at 80hz @ +1 you will be adding 1db (est)

This is fine, but you will need to turn the headunit down by 1 notch to avoid clipping.

On mine, you can ajust what frequenciy to boost, and the width of the boost.

Bass boost isnt a good thing really, if set up correctly, boosted bass shouldnt be needed.

I'll have a look when Ive finished work for your headunit...

[DanGTI]

Ive got bandwidth adjust, i can select 60, 80, 100 or 200..........bass frequency - can slect 60, 80, ,100 or 200.....and treble frequency where I can choose 10.0k 12.5k 15.0k or 17.5k.........

now this is probably useful in some way, but what does it all mean and whats the best?

I agree with the bass boost thing u said, a system should just play the cd how its intended and the quality of the system bring out the right bass/midrange/treble