tdwindustries Posted June 4, 2004 Report Share Posted June 4, 2004 I have been toying with getting a really good induction kit, but reading lots and some posts on here, suggesting that they actually harm performance.Does anyone have any thoughts/evidence? Which provides better performance? I have ditched my K and N because its nasty noise and cheap look style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad.gif" />All help gratefully received! Cheers tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gargoil Posted June 4, 2004 Report Share Posted June 4, 2004 Heres a power/torque diagram of a Polo GTi(same engine as loop Gti) with it's normal air box and then the BMC on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoopy Posted June 4, 2004 Report Share Posted June 4, 2004 What about the Viper kit - any proven power increases there? Also looking at buying sometime next month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gargoil Posted June 4, 2004 Report Share Posted June 4, 2004 I think they will be pretty much the same in terms of diffrence to the car just the BMC is much cheaper! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdwindustries Posted June 4, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2004 So it does make power delivery smoother and increase power... the viper kit is supposed to give a lot more because of the force feeding airSo what BMC kit works, and what Viper kit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gargoil Posted June 4, 2004 Report Share Posted June 4, 2004 Remember air is sucked into an engine not 'fed' into it a filter is just allowing more air to be available fo sucking by not hampering the flow of air to the engine side of the filter. Both the Viper and BMC are the same Venturii pump shape and the air will have to come from the same original piping at the front drivers side of the engine bay,I'd doubt there's any great difference to them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdwindustries Posted June 4, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2004 well the Viper claims that (because you actually connect the pipe to the bumper so it has air forced into it) it is very different to the BMC - it uses the forced air to push more through the engine so it says....would be very interested to see power graph of a Viper to see if it was all made up or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gargoil Posted June 4, 2004 Report Share Posted June 4, 2004 That won't force air in, it's the shape of the filter that acts like a pump that forces air through, the viper can only be connected in the same way as the BMC in the loop,due to lack of room under the bonnet, unless you get a subaru scoop! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoopy Posted June 4, 2004 Report Share Posted June 4, 2004 There's no way to drop a cold air feed down to the lower valance mesh or similar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poobah Posted June 4, 2004 Report Share Posted June 4, 2004 Got a viper on mine and to be honest its kinda irrelevant talking about fitting the intake in the grill or bumper as you would have to cut a hole in the bumper as there is no area of free grill to use except the two lower grills at the bottom. Even then you are talking some serious complex pipe work to get it to fit. I'm using a viper kit intended for a BMW Mini cooper and it sems to fit but l'm just waiting for my Samco hosing to fit it more perminantly. Black flexi tube is so unattractive!! As for performance gains l'm not sure as l've yet to rolling road it but l have noticed a difference at higher speeds such as 70mph. Before when accelerating the car would be a touch hesitant to go where as now it accelerates much more strongly. I would anticipate gains similar to the BMC to be honest. Sounds great too! Pics of it fitted are on: http://groups.msn.com/PoobahsGTi/shoebox.m...snw?albumlist=1These are pre coilover pics by the way. Much better now!Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdwindustries Posted June 4, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2004 @gargoil: ah yes well i didnt bring the lupo into this yet! you are right, but in theory if it had that cold air it *should* outperform the BMC@snoop: think the person with the viper kit (in readers rides) was trying to do this but not sure if its been done....have to remove the side light unit style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gargoil Posted June 4, 2004 Report Share Posted June 4, 2004 I don't understand what you mean, cause on a car that you could feed from an opening in the front you would do the same with the BMC as you would a viper , it's just that the viper is provided with the trumpet at the end to make it look nicer but you can buy these seperately! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdwindustries Posted June 4, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2004 Ok as I understood it the viper is unique in that it should only use forced air (i.e. attached to the bumper/bonnet scoop/whatever) and therefore will give better performance than a BMC which isnt connected to a forced air via the outside of the car....but, bear (sp?) in mind that I started this post because I am really confused after reading about them... so really its a question... does the Viper have a different inner bit (the whole cyclone thing) that means it works differently to the BMC - viper claims to be unique and I want to know why!!!cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poobah Posted June 4, 2004 Report Share Posted June 4, 2004 I would say that the viper and BMC are the same idea. I havent looked into mine but l do know that there are two viper kits sold. 1 has the ram pipe as mine does and the other does not and is just an opening at the end of the filter. These are only for certain applications. However the filters in the two kits are the same so l would think that the viper can be used in the same way as the bmc.C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdwindustries Posted June 4, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2004 aha Poobah it was you!have you ever found any power graphs for the Viper? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poobah Posted June 4, 2004 Report Share Posted June 4, 2004 Not for the Lupo as they don't make one for it! l've seen graphs from Saxo vts and clio 172 and it gave between `7-10bhp` on both of them. l take all results from manufacturers (BMC and Pipercross) with a pinch of salt though.Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gargoil Posted June 4, 2004 Report Share Posted June 4, 2004 Yeah when I had my BMC on before other mods it didn't feel like there was a power gain, the main difference was the car felt a lot smoother at low revs. I'd say 5bhp max. Anyhows I had my BMC off a few weeks ago to change the piping and noticed the inlet side of the filter was almost full with small leaves. Don't think you city folk will have this trouble but I suggest any country bumpkins check the inside of there filters! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poobah Posted June 4, 2004 Report Share Posted June 4, 2004 Christ l'll check for badgers and hedgehogs in mine then. Live in the middle of know where. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gargoil Posted June 4, 2004 Report Share Posted June 4, 2004 lol! IT's squirrels and rabbits we have the problem with here. When I bought my very first car a Polo 1.4 16v driving home from picking it up I felt a slight bump at the front of the car. As i wasn't used to driving I thought it was just a bump in the road. I spent the rest of the day picking rabbit brain out of my font grill with a screwdriver! nice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twisty b-road Posted June 4, 2004 Report Share Posted June 4, 2004 Erik at AAT said to me that if you connect the BMC to the factory feed on the inside of the wing you'll gain nothingWhen Alex's BMC/Powerflowed GTi was tested at Jam Sport last year for +9bhp over standard, the Jamsport guys disconnected it and had the air being fed through the short pipe/open bonnet and not through the feed from the wing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twisty b-road Posted June 4, 2004 Report Share Posted June 4, 2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackrat Posted June 4, 2004 Report Share Posted June 4, 2004 has anyone ever noticed two little black pipes going into the throttle body ? they circulate hot water from the engine thru the body , any idea's what its for ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoopy Posted June 4, 2004 Report Share Posted June 4, 2004 QUOTE(twisty `b-road`)the Jamsport guys disconnected it and had the air being fed through the short pipe/open bonnet and not through the feed from the wingThat's going to be better on a rolling road though, no? There's very little airflow at a rolling road (a few puny fans if you're lucky) so by disconnecting the air feed and having it sucking in air from the open bonnet, you'll get much more air in than leaving it connected to the stock feed.On the road, the opposite applies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twisty b-road Posted June 4, 2004 Report Share Posted June 4, 2004 I wouldn't have thought there'd be much airflow through the tiny hole inside the wing moving or not?Erik defo said when I met him that if I was gonna connect the BMC through the standard intake inside the wing, I might as well keep the standard airbox too as I'd gain nothingHe was gonna have to speak to Sorg Motorsport see what they did with a road going Lupo seeing as there's sod all room in the front of the GTi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoopy Posted June 5, 2004 Report Share Posted June 5, 2004 Hmm. Had a look today - there really isn't much room in there, is there! Hadn't really noticed before style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":lol:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" /> Bonnet scoop it is, then. style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" /> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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