LR5V Posted October 14, 2018 Report Share Posted October 14, 2018 (edited) OK - as title new clutch kit, suspect something in the hydraulics was on the way out before I parked the Lupo. New pressure plate must be a good bit stronger and finished the worn hydraulic part off. First bleed : I initially used a one-man with a one way valve, seemed to work OK. Second bleed : after Discovering the problem, manually bled - no fluid coming out, pedal returning. Third bleed: vacuum pump, fluid coming out, but pedal staying down. So - what has broken? I get the feeling its master cylinder?? Edited November 7, 2018 by LR5V Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted October 14, 2018 Report Share Posted October 14, 2018 I’d try back bleeding it first, used to be a right nightmare on the minis to bleed up but back bleeding always (eventually) sorted it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LR5V Posted October 14, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2018 (edited) You think air in the system? Forgot to mention that when I did the clutch I didn't disconnect the slave from its hose - removed form gearbox and tucked it to one side - only reason I bled it was to the old brake fluid was grotty, as usual clutch was even worse. Edited October 14, 2018 by LR5V Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted October 14, 2018 Report Share Posted October 14, 2018 Pedal up, pedal down. Play with spanner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LR5V Posted October 14, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2018 No change - I have put a third of a litre of brake fluid through it ...and just to add to the joy, the nipple is starting to round off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mk2 Posted October 14, 2018 Report Share Posted October 14, 2018 Get one of those pressure bleed kits. Or stick a schrader valve in a spare reservoir cap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LR5V Posted October 14, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2018 I have one man pressure kit - don't like it. if you reduce the tyre pressure it does not do too much and keeps needing blown up. If you dont reduce the tyre pressure it puts too much pressure on the system. I have a hand vacuum pump kit & also a vacuum kit for the compressor -but the compressor is out of action just now. The vacuum only sucks fluid out when the pedal is down, but it only takes the same amount each time I'm still convinced there is a faulty hydraulic item, when I took the box and clutch off there was a lot of dust - close to packed with clutch dust - could well be something weak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted October 14, 2018 Report Share Posted October 14, 2018 Fitting a slave isn't that hard but it sounds like air. Is there any clutch fluid building up now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sausage Posted October 14, 2018 Report Share Posted October 14, 2018 If the old fluid was dark with black specs then that's seals going, but it does sound like air. Did a Mondeo a while back, ended up with my big fluid drainer on the nipple sucking hard while i pumped the pedal a few times, manual bleeding, using a bleeding kit didn't work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LR5V Posted October 14, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2018 There is no change in the pedal feel. as mentioned in build thread it is a lot lighter than it was before - no difference in feel selecting gear clutch up or down. Nothing is moving. @Sausage Yes The old fluid was full of crud, some of it looked black. cant remember if it was the first flushed fluid - suggesting slave - or later being master cylinder. Was that back flushing you described - as suggested by Pete? Run out of light and I am away tomorrow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sausage Posted October 14, 2018 Report Share Posted October 14, 2018 1 hour ago, LR5V said: There is no change in the pedal feel. as mentioned in build thread it is a lot lighter than it was before - no difference in feel selecting gear clutch up or down. Nothing is moving. @Sausage Yes The old fluid was full of crud, some of it looked black. cant remember if it was the first flushed fluid - suggesting slave - or later being master cylinder. Was that back flushing you described - as suggested by Pete? Run out of light and I am away tomorrow No normal way on the slave nipple. (no not that sort of slave or nipple). Pull slave out, restrain the rod somehow and apply pedal pressure, see what it is doing. Might be a non hydraulic issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted October 14, 2018 Report Share Posted October 14, 2018 I thought about off car bleeding, decent zip tie might do it in the bolt holes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LR5V Posted October 14, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2018 56 minutes ago, Sausage said: No normal way on the slave nipple. (no not that sort of slave or nipple). Pull slave out, restrain the rod somehow and apply pedal pressure, see what it is doing. Might be a non hydraulic issue. 49 minutes ago, Rich said: I thought about off car bleeding, decent zip tie might do it in the bolt holes Is that to test the slave? - slave limiter: Fizzy drinks bottle - neck cut off, lid on, cable tie around collar and 2 other ties looped through first tie & bolt holes I will try backfilling first, using vacuum on disconnected feed pipe & some form of hopper on the slave nipple still think its master cylinder -Sadly this will all have to wait till next weekend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted October 14, 2018 Report Share Posted October 14, 2018 Master cylinder has nothing to do with clutch and the clutch master seems very reliable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LR5V Posted October 15, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2018 This guy makes sense and - going to order an oil can Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted October 15, 2018 Report Share Posted October 15, 2018 Looks to me like he’s back bleeding it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sausage Posted October 15, 2018 Report Share Posted October 15, 2018 21 minutes ago, Pete said: Looks to me like he’s back bleeding it. He is. Quite clever with the oil can actually, wish I'd thought of this.👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted October 15, 2018 Report Share Posted October 15, 2018 I thought that’s how everyone did it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LR5V Posted October 15, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2018 It certainly is better than my vacuum plan! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mk2 Posted October 15, 2018 Report Share Posted October 15, 2018 You can just pressure bleed it through?! I thought that's the usual method.... especially with ABS pumps when doing brakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LR5V Posted October 20, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2018 Well my clutch nightmare continues. Ordered one of these. after vacuuming out brake fluid from the reservoir, I back bled the system. Constantly watching the reservoir, I was pleased when a few bubbles of air came out - I thought great the guys were correct. Sadly the relief was short lived as there was no change, so dived inside and ordered a click and collect from Euro's for a Sachs slave with weekend 37%. Drove 2 thirds of the way to find I had left my wallet at home! wallet collected, part purchased, fitted - so much easier with the hose disconnected - clutch line bled again. Jumped into the Lupo, there was now some resistance, but it still seemed light. Engine off, clutch down gear changes felt a little better, but there was now change with engine on. For the slave swap, I had drained the line and reservoir into a shallow dish on inspection I could see a 1mm fleck of rubber - suggesting a seal had failed. Old slave does not show any obvious failure and thinking about the clutch install, I believe its pretty much impossible to screw up fitment: The pressure plate wont fit over the clutch plate if it's the wrong way round, pressure plate can only be mounted in one position on the flywheel, the release bearing can only clip into the lever one way, the tube that locates the release bearing can only bolt onto the bell housing one way and lastly the lever can only clip in one way - with slave off I checked the lever, it seems to be in the same location, clipped into the bell-housing Do you good folk agree that its got to be the master cylinder? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted October 20, 2018 Report Share Posted October 20, 2018 i hope for your sake that it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sausage Posted October 21, 2018 Report Share Posted October 21, 2018 Have you removed the slave and restrained the rod, pedal should have obvious resistance then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LR5V Posted October 21, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2018 No fella - out of frustration I opted for the expensive option of swapping components over. As covered above, I do not think its possible (even for me) to screw up the clutch install. The only thing left is the master cylinder - Clutch master cylinder for pedant Rich! I had not cleaned out the dish I used to empty out the clutch line into, this is the black rubber debris and other stuff - the bigger black lump is bigger than I said before, closer to 2mm square: New Sachs master cylinder ordered - ebay seller is one of those ones demanding registration number before posting... despite at check out adding the info in "message to seller" they still wrote back asking for info... hopefully there wont be any further delay and turn up Tuesday or Wednesday Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LR5V Posted October 25, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2018 Luck not currently improving - parcel delivered today - Instead of the expected master cylinder I ordered, I got a nice boxed set of Boge bump stops! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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