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Joshhert

Help arosa sdi (wheel bearing) noise

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Hi there, 

I need help with a very loud and distressing wheel speed noise. It's there wether in gear or not, only with the wheels turning. Clutching has no effect on it. It sounds, as far as I can tell (and a couple of different passengers) to be coming from the front passenger side wheel, with some vibration noticeable through the foot well. 

I've had the front up and listened with a Dowell while the wheels are driving, and the gearbox and drivers side knuckle make a kind of sshsshssh noise which I would associate with dry or very slightly worn bearings. While the passenger side knuckle makes a crunchy clunkey noise. 

Thing is that I've now changed the p side bearing twice, and the knuckle (I scragged the original) and drive shaft with no definite change.  having done the bearing both  times found the hub nut not  tightened all the way after a few miles, despite Having wound the Bearing in with a puller and torqued up the nut.

Car is 2001, 115k and the noise was audible but mild 10k ago and now is incredibly insistent.

I need Help as I'm about to drive from Somerset to Wales, towing 700k, and don't want a failure on route. Or a catastrophic gearbox failure. And would love to take it to 200+k

I guess I'm asking what it might be, or what I did wrong fitting the bearings to cause them to fail prematurely (10's or  hundreds of miles) fag bearings

All help greatly appreciated, any questions just ask. I could make a recording but when I have the exhaust shielding rattle and console squeak largely drowns it out.

Thanking you kindly,

Joshhert 

Edited by Joshhert
Forgotten to mention front

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fag is generally good.

did you fit with a press?

running it without ir being tightened can kill them instantly.

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I used a big bolt based puller.

Good to know that little distance loose will do it. Hoping it's that.

Any tips on pressing on races during re-fit? I understand that you press on outer race into knuckle, and press against inner race when fitting hub?

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like Frank (mk2) said somewhere go get it properly pressed in by using cakes or muffins 

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12 hours ago, Joshhert said:

I used a big bolt based puller.

Good to know that little distance loose will do it. Hoping it's that.

Any tips on pressing on races during re-fit? I understand that you press on outer race into knuckle, and press against inner race when fitting hub?

Correct, outer shell into knuckle, inner into hub. You may not be getting it all the way home of the hub nut is loosening shortly after, so some whacks with a hammer on whatever you are using to press the bearing will make a different noise when it is fully home.

Jack wheel up in neutral and rock it at half twelve to check for play in bearing and rotate it for lack of smooth rotation (easier to tell with wheel off here), if it seems ok then check for back plate rubbing on disk, stone stuck in the disk or other brake problems and as obvious stuff like loose wheel nuts (oops had that one myself once). Once had brake pads come off the metal backing and chirp and whine in situ exactly like a worn wheel bearing, even bought the bearing ready to fit.

If none of that seems to be the case then it might be worth isolating the gearbox by removing the passenger drive shaft as you are most the way there getting the bearing out and "driving it" in the air to see what noises you get then. 

Edited by Sausage

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Cheers for the excellent advice, I definitely won't rule out the treats exchange, but this time I want to do it myself so I'm really clear on whats gone wrong. 

I'll do the checks, already done the backplate and wheel bolts, and the 6 12 wiggle. any safe way to disconnect only the splined driveshaft end to test jacked up and running? I don't want to take it off the gear box as it will spray the leftover grease. Also more of a pain to remove. 

I'll also remove pads and run jacked up to eliminate that. 

Cheers guys, I'll keep you posted!

 

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Ok jack up one wheel at a time and leave the other on the ground and drive it properly supported on blocks or stands, 1st and 2nd should be enough no need to go mad, wheel just has to be off the ground so the diff bearings get a work out.

If yours is lowered try varying the ride height of the spinning wheel as well.

If you mean your inner cv joint is losing grease then you ought to be checking that for wear too.

Edited by Sausage

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So did a few tests and it seems almost exactly like this:

On 25/12/2011 at 11:01 PM, grazo22 said:I had a bearing noise from my gearbox about 5000 miles ago and it had progressively getting worse however all gears still engaged fine. They were noisy when coming off the throttle though. when it suddenly went, it was a long drive home and apparently i just stopped in time because when the main shaft was taken from the casing the bearing fell apart."

 

So mine isn't noisy coming off  throttle whilst driving, but with a wheel up, and abruptly coming off throttle there's a definite clatter. Listening with Dowell to driveshaft, knuckle and gearbox casing there is more noise by gearbox in fact.

checked gearbox oil and it was 3/4" below the full plug. Topped up and seems to be quieter. Obvious slow weeping from selector seal. I seem to remember reading someone had a similar problem, noise, no gear difficulty, topped up and went silent but failed shortly after.

Since topping up mine seems to be quite quiet driving straight and much louder cornering either way. Marked the wheel, did slow circles in a parking lot with the help of a friend. Noise seems to be about 4 times to every 3 wheel revs.

 

Any suggestions?

How big a pain is it to remove gearbox, replace output bearings, selector seal, replace clutch and refit?

Also does anyone know of a good transmissions place that could do those jobs for 400-500?

Any input greatly appreciated 

Thanks

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Also there grease leak is from the metal plate at the gearbox end the bolts go through, seems to be slightly skew so I'll re-visit that

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dry CV joints would cause a racket.

try taking them off and regreasing them?

where about are you?

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Sounds like a cv joint from the description... Checked for axial shaft play with wheels straight ahead and level? Should be tight.

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Ah, rich pipped me to the post...

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Eliminate the cheap or free stuff first before lashing out money on big stuff. Inner cv needs looking at esp if it leaking grease or not bolted up properly.

if you are handy bearings can be done yourself, need some heat and pullers and probably a welder to remove outer races. but until you open the box you wont really know what needs doing and how much it will cost. I used a golf wheel bearing for the input output shaft cost about £6, plus some good sealant for the box (£11) and new oil, so about 30 something quid.

Edited by Sausage
correction

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What grease can i use? I only have lithium atm.

Just been for the first proper drive, up to 60mph for 23 miles. 

The weird thing is that before I had clearly identified the noise as disappearing when turning left, now it is completely smooth when going straight, loud when turning right and LOUDEST turning left. 

Definite noise change after top up

If it were output or diff could turning affect it? 

Right hand boot intact, and externally dry, left hand drive shaft replaced 100 miles ago, grease leak only little, under 20ml, and after drive now nearby components not splattered So either not leaking or all grease  lost 

 

I'm in street, in Somerset

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Cheers sausage, great advice. 

So remove and Check leaking driveshaft, test, repeat for other side? 

Edited by Joshhert

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Also I need to replace the driveshaft bolts. Are there any standard hex ones that will work? Or allen not bihex? Not a fan

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Take shafts off the gearbox cups and test them for slop and roughness by hand in neutral, if they cant be turned by hand something is not happy, same if one is very stiff and the other isnt. lock one cup at a time with a bar thru 2 bolts against the subframe or ground and carefully drive it in 1st to test the diff and bearings.

Input shaft will make noise on clutch bite and stop when clutch disengages, output shaft and diff will make noise when moving only, worse noise when cornering will probably be diff / diff bearings (assuming driveshafts and wheel bearings are good).

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1 minute ago, Joshhert said:

Also I need to replace the driveshaft bolts. Are there any standard hex ones that will work? Or allen not bihex? Not a fan

They are hardened items use only the correct ones.

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Excellent advice, I'll do the test over the next couple of days. Suitable grease for cv? 

I recognise that about the bolts, more wondering if there were compatible bolts off another vehicle 

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Also thank you all for your awesome advice, and incredibly speedy responses. I'm fairly handy but going through a very sharp diagnosis learning curve, which should do me good for the rest of my driving life 

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The bolts holding the inner cv joint to the gearbox drive flange are splined (or double square). Super strong, and nothing similar. Splined so you can turn them using a long extension bar from right outside the car at the wheel end. Regular bolts would be a nightmare. They are   very tight, and you need to do them up tight again (use a torque wrench to get them to be all the same- not sure of the setting though).

The grease in a cv joint has to be be MoS2 or cv/moly grease. Black in colour. When/if you dismantle the cv joint, you have to be completely clean. Really really clean. Any dirt in there will cause the precision surfaces to grind and wear out very quickly. While you're in bits, check all the rubber bellows (boots) for damage and holes. Any grease leak is an MOT fail.

Test the movement like sausage said. Very slight is fine, anything bigger than say 0.25mm means the gearbox internals need some work. Gearboxes like to run tight.

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double square?

more like triple square.

avoid using a spline if you can help it.

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Am i using the wrong tools rich? My spline set fits perfectly and is marked double square... what is the right 'bit' to fit the holes? Triple square makes more sense though, as double would be an 8 star.... i'm beginning to think i have no idea what is going on. Also fits a lot of head bolts, some seat belt bolts and a few others I cant think of.

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don't worry, Google will explain.

 

wp_ss_20180301_0001.png

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Yeah, I already looked at that too... also spline bits have a 60 degree angle. So my (unbranded) set is marked spline, looks like XZN (90 degree) and is labelled double square! I think I just got lucky with my set which needs to be the 90 degree variant and is 90. So all good in the end. But that is something I genuinely was not aware of. Thanks for pointing it out. God I hate it when you're always right.... :)

 

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