Dannynewport1978 Posted May 20, 2017 Report Share Posted May 20, 2017 (edited) Hi all, I decided Friday that I'm going to start building a 20V rear engined rwd Lupo. I've built a Tiger B6 kitcar years ago with an R1 engine which was fun but had to sell it. I fully converted a T5 camper & recently sold that too, now I'm bored & want another project, was originally going to go down the bike engined route again but weighed up the costs of a bike motor & future tuning & decided it's not really cost effective compared to the price & tuning capabilities of a 20v.After a bit of research I bought an AGU engine with 60000 genuine miles, an emerald standalone ecu, VR6 clutch & G60 flywheel.I've spoken to a few people regarding tuning these engines & this is what I'm planning to do.Obviously I'm going to do the brakes & suspension too. Leave pistons standard as they are good for 500bhp, Standard cams, Race cams not needed as AGU has big port head & cams are plentiful Integrated Engineering Steel rods Siemens 630cc Deka Injectors Bosch 044 fuel pump BKR7EIX Spark plugs BorgWarner EFR 6258 turbo & manifold. I'm ideally hoping to go 400+ BHP but don't know what kind of figure I can expect with this setup, I'm not buying a BAM if anybody suggests it as I've already got the AGU & I don't think the BAM is a better option. Also the gearbox? I'll get a LSD but I've been told any 02J 5 speed box is fine but what are thoughts on this. And as for rear mounting the engine I'm unsure whether to make a space frame for the rear or weld in a VAG subframe & mount the engine on that. If I go down the subframe route does anybody which subframe is closest width of a Lupo but will accept the 20v with mods obviously. Any links to mid engined builds will be greatly appreciated. Thanks guys in advance. Edited June 28, 2017 by Dannynewport1978 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted May 20, 2017 Report Share Posted May 20, 2017 desecration of a gti. I'm for this as it adds value to mine. I'm against this as you should save it and use a lesser value base. curious on the reg and if it is the cheap Cumbria based one which was for sale recently. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skezza Posted May 20, 2017 Report Share Posted May 20, 2017 Yikes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannynewport1978 Posted May 20, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2017 33 minutes ago, Rich said: desecration of a gti. I'm for this as it adds value to mine. I'm against this as you should save it and use a lesser value base. curious on the reg and if it is the cheap Cumbria based one which was for sale recently. No it's from a friend & I paid £300 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Loop Posted May 20, 2017 Report Share Posted May 20, 2017 42 minutes ago, Rich said: desecration of a gti. I'm against this as you should save it and use a lesser value base. Interesting project, but I agree with Rich here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skezza Posted May 20, 2017 Report Share Posted May 20, 2017 1 hour ago, Dannynewport1978 said: No it's from a friend & I paid £300 Do up the GTI? Sell for profitz? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted May 20, 2017 Report Share Posted May 20, 2017 sell gti as is, buy cheaper base car, make money whilst doing so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted May 20, 2017 Report Share Posted May 20, 2017 Standard pistons take 500 bhp?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mobieus_uk Posted May 20, 2017 Report Share Posted May 20, 2017 just curious what the car insurance would be on a car that you built, a few companies panic when you swap the wheels, complete engine and drive train should give them a heart attack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannynewport1978 Posted May 20, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2017 1 hour ago, Pete said: Standard pistons take 500 bhp?? Meant 400 sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Penguin Posted May 20, 2017 Report Share Posted May 20, 2017 do you recall the rear engined Golf with a W12 motor fitted, it featured on Top Gear, you'll have the same handling problems, the chassis is too short Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannynewport1978 Posted May 20, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, The Penguin said: do you recall the rear engined Golf with a W12 motor fitted, it featured on Top Gear, you'll have the same handling problems, the chassis is too short Once the engine is in the back the hard work is done. If it's too unbalanced then I'll get another AGU & do the same mods & put one in the front too which is the easy part. So if anybody can help me with the original post please do so as it's going ahead whether you want to see a GTI chopped up or not!??? Edited May 20, 2017 by Dannynewport1978 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted May 21, 2017 Report Share Posted May 21, 2017 chop it, more fool you. that gti as it stands now is worth more money untouched than it will when you finish or someone weighs it in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sausage Posted May 21, 2017 Report Share Posted May 21, 2017 (edited) I've wanted to see a rear engine one done for a while now, but I would agree that a GTI isnt the place to try and do this in. If you had done this previously to a base shell and knew what to do and not f@ck it up then I would say go for the GTI as well, but as it is fix or sell on the GTI and do it in a diesel with cheap tax on it. Who sells a GTI for £300 anyway? Edited May 21, 2017 by Sausage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sausage Posted May 21, 2017 Report Share Posted May 21, 2017 Oh, I want your rear beam for my TDI if you go ahead and the price isnt stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted May 21, 2017 Report Share Posted May 21, 2017 3 hours ago, Sausage said: Oh, I want your rear beam for my TDI if you go ahead and the price isnt stupid. rear discs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sausage Posted May 21, 2017 Report Share Posted May 21, 2017 1 hour ago, Rich said: rear discs? Yep, prob go 280mm at the front same time depending on what wheels I can get over them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Penguin Posted May 21, 2017 Report Share Posted May 21, 2017 22 hours ago, Dannynewport1978 said: Once the engine is in the back the hard work is done. If it's too unbalanced then I'll get another AGU & do the same mods & put one in the front too which is the easy part. So if anybody can help me with the original post please do so as it's going ahead whether you want to see a GTI chopped up or not!??? That was done famously in a Twin Peaks racing Scirocco http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2016/11/bi-curiosities-volkswagens-twin-engine-terrors/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carrera-gt Posted May 24, 2017 Report Share Posted May 24, 2017 There is also a twin engine mini desiged by issgonis apparently horrible to drive 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derv Posted May 28, 2017 Report Share Posted May 28, 2017 The AGU isn't the best choice IMHO. Sure, it's got the big port head, but it's also got a throttle cable. ME7 is much better for tuning. There's a good reason for using something like a BAM, as even the APY doesn't have WBO2 or EGT monitoring, so the later engines are much less likely to make holes in pistons. A GTI is a good shell to base it on, depending on how much modification you intend do to the body, otherwise it is a bit of a waste. With all the rear end modification, I would be very tempted to go space frame or semi-space frame, with some double wishbone suspension. You can pick up a standard Lupo on the cheap, and chop away without worry. I keep looking at 1.8T conversions, but part of the of the Lupo's appeal is the low weight and nibbleness. Twin engines would be out for me. I'd rather have one 800PS motor than 2x 400. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannynewport1978 Posted June 28, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2017 (edited) Bit of a delay getting this on the way but should be starting to get somewhere now pretty soon. I've decided to go with the BorgWarner EFR 6258 turbo with high flow cast manifold which I will be ordering in the next few weeks. Took the engine out on the weekend A little helper giving me a hand Edited July 16, 2017 by Dannynewport1978 Photobucket waste of time removing links Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted June 28, 2017 Report Share Posted June 28, 2017 http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?7049215-Swedish-Golf-MK2-midengine-GTI-16v-Turbo that's how you do it, no room for a firewall in a lupo. no firewall and it will be absolutely undriveable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Penguin Posted June 28, 2017 Report Share Posted June 28, 2017 39 minutes ago, Rich said: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?7049215-Swedish-Golf-MK2-midengine-GTI-16v-Turbo that's how you do it, no room for a firewall in a lupo. no firewall and it will be absolutely undriveable. I think you are probably right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannynewport1978 Posted June 28, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2017 (edited) There will be a firewall going in. I've measured & I have enough room too. Not a lot but it will go in. Thanks for the link though, the firewall I have already to go in is from a VW LT but I might fab my own now looking at that. Edited June 28, 2017 by Dannynewport1978 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannynewport1978 Posted July 4, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2017 (edited) Some more progress yesterday afternoon. All the interior stripped out & almost ready for the floorpan to be cut away now for the rear subframe. Edited July 4, 2017 by Dannynewport1978 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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